# How worried should Patients be about the BiPap and Cpap recall? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 2, 2024, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-worried-should-patients-be-about-the-bipap-and-cpap-recall/997005 "2024-02-02T04:31:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-worried-should-patients-be-about-the-bipap-and-cpap-recall/997005/1 "2024-02-02T04:31:46Z")
I’m confused by where this foam is coming from? My BiPap uses a nylon mesh screen to filter. My mask has a plastic or nylon seal. I don’t see any foam I know there are serious health hazards associated with sleep apnea. 😴 That’s how my doctor convinced me to use a BiPap. They started BiPap treatment while I was hospitalized with Covid related pneumonia in April, 2023. I was sent home and set up with a machine. Mine includes a humidifier. I use distilled water. Works good. Occasionally I wake up to gurgling in the hose. I remove the mask and drain a couple tablespoons of water from the hose. I like my machine and feel more rested. Philips halted US sales until new legal disclaimers are worked out. Basically _CYA_ **How do you feel about the recent news? Are you concerned?** > **[Medical Device Recall Information - Philips Respironics Sleep and Respiratory...](https://www.usa.philips.com/healthcare/e/sleep/communications/src-update)** > > In June 2021, after discovering a potential health risk related to a part in certain CPAP, BiPAP and Mechanical Ventilator devices, Philips issued a voluntary Field Safety Notice (outside U.S.) / voluntary recall notification (U.S. only). > **[Philips to Halt Sleep Apnea Machine Sales Over Safety Concerns](https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2024/philips-halts-sleep-apnea-machine-sales.html)** > > What patients need to know > **[FDA says 561 deaths tied to recalled Philips sleep apnea machines](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fda-sleep-apnea-philips-recall-cpap/)** > > Update from the Food and Drug Agency comes days after Philips said it would stop selling the devices in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-worried-should-patients-be-about-the-bipap-and-cpap-recall/997005/2 "2024-02-02T06:24:25Z")
My husband and our daughter both have CPAPs, but they aren’t the models that were recalled. I was a little puzzled about where the foam would be from as well. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-worried-should-patients-be-about-the-bipap-and-cpap-recall/997005/3 "2024-02-02T13:42:23Z")
FWIW, I’m not sure, but I think the foam is used as gasketing somewhere, and it would be fine except that other companies started selling those ozone cleaning machines. Ozone is famous for making rubbery materials get crumbly. I have used CPAP for something like 15 years, and I don’t use one of those ozone cleaners, and I’m not at all worried. Note, also, that as a general rule, we humans needn’t live in mortal fear of stray chunks of stuff getting near our noses and mouths. In principle it’s possible to inhale things to our detriment, but in practice it’s not that common. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-worried-should-patients-be-about-the-bipap-and-cpap-recall/997005/4 "2024-02-02T14:05:05Z")
My limited understanding is the foam is used on the inside of the cover as a sound-dampening measure, and over time it deteriorates and particles are getting into the airflow mechanism. My wife uses a non-recalled model so we checked into what was going on when this first emerged in the news. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-worried-should-patients-be-about-the-bipap-and-cpap-recall/997005/5 "2024-02-02T17:22:13Z")
This whole issue first came to light in June 2021: > [@Philips CPAP users, heads-up: here comes a recall](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philips-cpap-users-heads-up-here-comes-a-recall/944390): > > Just in case you missed the news, Philips is issuing a recall on a bunch of its CPAP and ventilator devices: Foam in the intake tract (downstream of the intake particulate filters) can degrade and spew toxic particles into the air you breathe. They are advising CPAP users to stop using their machines and check in with their doc or equipment supplier for advice. Mine is only a couple of years old and has always been kept in a cool/dry environment, and does not appear to be shedding foam, so … Philips started shipping replacement CPAP machines (the Dreamstation 2) later that year. Not sure why it has become news again, other than that Philips has halted sales in the US is negotiating with the FDA to figure out how to move forward from here. In the case of the Philips Dreamstation CPAP machine (and probably in all the rest too), the main issue is a block of porous foam in the intake tract of the machine, intended to dampen sound from the blower that pumps air to the user. Although incoming air flows through this foam, it’s not intended to do any filtering; that happens at the very start of the intake tract, where users install coarse and fine filter inserts. For some users, the foam has been disintegrating and spewing foam dust and toxic vapors downstream to their masks. And since the actual air filter inserts are upstream of this component, the foam particles do indeed make it all the way to the user and end up getting inhaled. Officially, Philips has said that high ambient temperature and humidity exacerabates the problem. Unofficially, I suspect a lot of these cases are due to people cleaning their machines with ozone cleaners. Ozone is nasty, nasty shit and tears apart a lot of plastics and rubbers, and disintegrating foam is exactly the sort of symptom I would expect from pumping ozone-rich air through a CPAP machine. If you’re handy with tools, it’s possible to remove the intake duct from the machine, cut it open, and strip the foam out: > [@Philips CPAP users, heads-up: here comes a recall](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/philips-cpap-users-heads-up-here-comes-a-recall/944390/7): > > nearly six month after the recall was announced, it turns out there’s a safety concern with the foam being used in the proposed replacement devices: So now it’s anyone’s guess as to when acceptably safe devices will be available to replace the recalled devices currently being used by patients. I was originally planning to just wait for a replacement, but now that the timing is up in the air, I’ve decided to pull the foam from my CPAP’s plastic intake manifold. There are plenty of YouTube vi… I was unable to make the easy fish-it-out-with-a-drain-hair-removal-snare method, so I ended up cutting into the plastic duct with a heated utility knife blade, pull the foam out, and then hot-glue that opening closed again. Worked well, no noticeable increase in noise. The crazy thing is that there’s now a concern about the replacement machine - the Dreamstation 2 - and overheating: [https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/safety-communications/carefully-monitor-philips-dreamstation-2-cpap-machines-signs-overheating-fda-safety-communication](https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/safety-communications/carefully-monitor-philips-dreamstation-2-cpap-machines-signs-overheating-fda-safety-communication) No recall (yet), but it’s a weird sudden increase in reports of overheating problems in the six months. For the time being, FDA is just advising users to keep an eye on their DS2 for troubling symptoms. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-worried-should-patients-be-about-the-bipap-and-cpap-recall/997005/6 "2024-02-02T18:42:16Z")
I appreciate the explanation for the source of the problem. I never use ozone cleaner. I can’t stop using my machine. Sleep apnea is not something I can ignore. I’m not sure how severe my apnea is rated. I’ll ask my doctor. I’m trying to get into a sleep study program. Hopefully get monitored at home. I think BiPap is less powerful than CPap? Maybe my apnea isn’t too severe. I see my doc in a couple months and find out. link [The Dangers of Uncontrolled Sleep Apnea | Johns Hopkins Medicine](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/the-dangers-of-uncontrolled-sleep-apnea) ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-worried-should-patients-be-about-the-bipap-and-cpap-recall/997005/7 "2024-02-02T18:59:04Z")
I guess it’s back in the news because there was a class-action settlement recently? Although that came about in December, as I noted in the thread you linked to. Not sure why the news is a month and a half behind on the suit. Perhaps there was just other stuff going on for the last month and a half. Pissed that the Dreamstation 2 is now having problems, something I hadn’t heard yet. I haven’t noticed any issues but I do all the stuff they recommend (except watching it when it runs cuz I’m asleep, alone). I’m not particularly married to the Dreamstation 2 as a machine but you know - what if I switched brands and the other brand doesn’t work as well for me? Plus, I’ve already fully paid for my Dreamstation. Whatever the case - there were over 500 deaths attributed to the Dreamstation 1 issues so I’m glad I didn’t fall victim to it, and Phillips is paying some dues. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-worried-should-patients-be-about-the-bipap-and-cpap-recall/997005/8 "2024-02-02T23:27:02Z")
I have a Dreamstation ST30 H biPap I got it May 2023 Mine doesn’t say Philips. Respironics Inc. I guess a subsidiary? The original recall was June 2021? Mine is newer and should be retrofitted to fix the problem. I sure hope so. My rental supplier hasn’t contacted me to recall it. Mine has a heat air function. I haven’t used that feature. Thankful now because heat could deteriorate any foam. From recall page > [@](#): > > All Affected Devices Manufactured Before 26 April 2021, All Device Serial Numbers ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2024, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-worried-should-patients-be-about-the-bipap-and-cpap-recall/997005/9 "2024-02-02T23:59:58Z")
My dad has an older machine he kept as a backup, as well as some from relatives who have passed on. He has one he would use on trips, with a battery he would use on camping trips. I’ve thought about getting a UPS (uninterruptable power supply) for his machine. But, for now, I have my phone set up with an alarm that goes off if the electricity goes off, and this combination car jumper than has an AC outlet that is enough to run the machine at least all night, if not multiple nights. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-worried-should-patients-be-about-the-bipap-and-cpap-recall/997005/10 "2024-09-20T18:00:02Z")
I just got a check for $155 today from the class action settlement. Not bad, considering I also got the free replacement machine. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-worried-should-patients-be-about-the-bipap-and-cpap-recall/997005/11 "2024-09-20T18:47:50Z")
Same here; my check came earlier this week. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-worried-should-patients-be-about-the-bipap-and-cpap-recall/997005/12 "2024-09-23T04:17:05Z")
I got a check also. $155 ---
**Author:** ![GESancMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gesancman/32/2923_2.png) [@GESancMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GESancMan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2024, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-worried-should-patients-be-about-the-bipap-and-cpap-recall/997005/13 "2024-09-23T14:11:01Z")
Me four.