# How would a native German say I cycle to school? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 10, 2023, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958 "2023-01-10T08:00:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/21 "2023-01-10T13:45:23Z")
That means “I travel by bike to the school”, right? What about dropping the implied “der”? In English, as I’m sure you know, we could say “I bike to the school” or “I bike to school”. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/22 "2023-01-10T13:45:52Z")
And there is a case when “Ich fahre mit dem Fahrrad nach der Schule” is almost right: When you mean to say that you ride your bicycle after school. As an evening activity, so to speak. Though changing the order sounds more natural too me: Nach der Schule fahre ich mit dem Fahrrad. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/23 "2023-01-10T13:46:45Z")
Nach meaning “after” not “to” in that case, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/24 "2023-01-10T13:46:51Z")
I’ve found lots of exampled of _mit Rad zur Schule_ online and in quality newspapers as well. > **[Kostenlose Malvorlagen und Bastelideen für Kinder](https://www.schule-und-familie.de/forum/frage-des-monats/5653-ab-wann-alleine-mit-rad-unterwegs.html)** > > Auf Schule und Familie findest du viele tolle Ideen für Kinder. Die Seite bietet Malvorlagen, Bastelanleitungen, Rezepte, Experimente und vieles mehr. Oct 4, 2010 — Klasse _mit Rad zur Schule_ kommen. Sind ja doch 2 km zu fahren. Eingetragen von eishockeymama am 06.10.2010 um 10:58 Uhr. ---
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/25 "2023-01-10T14:11:12Z")
I stand corrected. You are correct Eisteinshund and Pardel-Lux. It is incorrect to say “Ich fahre mit Rad zur Schule”. Ich fahre per Rad zur Schule is possible. But then there are the examples I see " \*mit Rad zur Schule kommen". That’s where I was confused. It seems possible to apply the Nullartikel in this case. I’m not quite sure why. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/26 "2023-01-10T14:45:36Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > It’s funny, because “top heavy” in the US never means “overly intellectual”, but can mean “busty”. It does sometimes mean “overly intellectual”. When people refer to [“top-heavy brains”](https://michellejohnston.com.au/magnificent-evolution-mostly/) or [“top heavy academics”](https://www.dressedwell.net/threads/famous-people-who-died.1968/page-19#post-249710) or [“top-heavy thinkers”](https://books.google.com/books?id=jMepDq0yiioC&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92) and so forth, that’s what they mean. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/27 "2023-01-10T14:50:17Z")
I haven’t come across that usage in English, to my memory. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/28 "2023-01-10T14:53:17Z")
Well, that explains why you thought it didn’t exist! ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/29 "2023-01-10T15:58:02Z")
As other native German speakers have said, much of this is dialectal. A wording that sounds odd in one German dialect might be perfectly idiomatic in another, or in Standard German. This applies to many things, such as inclusion or omission of articles, choice of preposition, or vocabulary. To mention another example, I grew up in a part of Germany where it’s even common to combine proper names with definite articles: “Der Thomas und die Sarah haben gesagt…” - “The Thomas and the Sarah said…”. Absolutely unacceptable in Standard German but very common in many parts of the south of Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/30 "2023-01-10T16:30:42Z")
I always thought it was correct to use ‘der’ or ‘die’ when referring to a particular individual. > **[Heidi kann brauchen, was es gelernt hat](https://www.projekt-gutenberg.org/spyri/heidi2/heidi25.html)** > > Projekt Gutenberg | Die weltweit größte kostenlose deutschsprachige Volltext-Literatursammlung | Klassische Werke von A bis Z | Bücher gratis online lesen Am andern Tage kam der Peter gerade zur rechten Zeit in die Schule heruntergefahren. ---
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/31 "2023-01-10T16:37:16Z")
This looks like perfectly good German syntax but I can’t explain the absence of an article before ‘Rad’. Is it a question of style or grammar? [https://yogaistfueralleda.ch/interview-mit-der-autorin-und-musikerin-andrea-bannert-zur-clyatomon-reihe/](https://yogaistfueralleda.ch/interview-mit-der-autorin-und-musikerin-andrea-bannert-zur-clyatomon-reihe/) Jun 8, 2021 — Wenn es mal nicht weitergeht, wechsle ich den Ort und fahre mit Rad und Notebook an den Starnberger See oder gehe erstmal eine Runde joggen. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/32 "2023-01-10T17:01:06Z")
> [@Octagon](#): > > Oct 4, 2010 — Klasse _mit Rad zur Schule_ kommen. Sind ja doch 2 km zu fahren. Eingetragen von eishockeymama am 06.10.2010 um 10:58 Uhr. This is most probably just an example of lazy and improper online style like also in many (most?) English online conversations. Think of it like old fashioned telegram style omitting words. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/33 "2023-01-10T17:01:42Z")
> [@Octagon](#): > > Wenn es mal nicht weitergeht, wechsle ich den Ort und fahre mit Rad und Notebook an den Starnberger See I would interpret that you take your bicycle and your notebook and go, perhaps by train, to the Starnberger See. Or maybe you rode/ride your bicycle, not relevant. The important thing is you have it there. It sounds analogous to “mit Sack und Pack” fahren, a quite common alliteration to express to take all your stuff with you. You would not say “mit dem Sack and dem Pack fahren”, sounds much too concrete. What do I care whether you stuff your belongings in one sack or another? > [@RitterSport](#): > > Nach meaning “after” not “to” in that case, I guess. Indeed, it is another word. It is just written the same, to confuse people. ---
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/34 "2023-01-10T17:14:00Z")
I think you’re right. I haven’t seen any grammar rules to justify it. Thanks Einsteinshund. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/35 "2023-01-10T17:16:54Z")
Message boards, comment sections and messenger posts are generally not the best sources for proper grammar, in either language. (with the exception of the Dope, of course) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/36 "2023-01-10T17:19:29Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Indeed, it is another word. It is just written the same, to confuse people. Yeah, we have that in English, too… ---
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2023, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/37 "2023-01-10T17:24:44Z")
Thanks Pardel-Lux. That makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/38 "2023-01-11T10:02:45Z")
Using definite articles together with a person’s name is common in southern German dialects (which includes Swiss German, so I’m not surprised to see that Johanna Spyri does it), but I wouldn’t do it in Standard German except for certain usages such as “the Peter of today is more confident than that of ten years ago”, if you want to say the same person has changed over the course of that time. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/39 "2023-01-11T10:15:13Z")
doppelpost! ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2023, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958/40 "2023-01-11T10:15:50Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > Using definite articles together with a person’s name is common in southern German dialects (which includes Swiss German, so I’m not surprised to see that Johanna Spyri does it), but I wouldn’t do it in Standard German except for certain usages such as “the Peter of today is more confident than that of ten years ago”, if you want to say the same person has changed over the course of that time. Seems to be a written vs. spoken thing: You wouldn’t read "_Der Hans ist ein Verbrecher"_ in an e.g. newspaper in the alpine region, either … but spoken, esp. in dialect is fully ok! and the “radeln” - as mentioned, it seems to be a alpine region thing (s-germ., austria, swiss?) … not sure about the swiss, as they are doing the “velo” thingy IIRC 😉 In den Alpen wird scheinbar viel g’radlt… come to think of it, in german it’s not too common to verbalize a substantive ((Fahr)Rad → radeln) but isn’t it ok in english to say _“I cycle to school every morning”_? which is pretty much the same example as _“I ride a bike to school every morning”_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-a-native-german-say-i-cycle-to-school/977958.md?page=3)