# How would americans resist an invasion of the US itself ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 1, 2004, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718 "2004-04-01T13:44:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HumptysHamhole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f0a364/32.png) [@HumptysHamhole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumptysHamhole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/21 "2004-04-01T22:02:12Z")
There is a statue of George H.W. Bush in the center of Houston Intercontenental Airport. It is entitled “Winds of Change.” Not very big though – I think it would only take a few people to tear it down. **New Iskander** wasn’t really joking though: [Topple Bush](http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0%2C12271%2C1090123%2C00.html) Poor oppressed Londoners – no statue of thier oppressor had been erected so they had to build it themsleves before tearing it down. (Yes I understand the symbolism of the protest but doesn’t it say something about the difference between Saddam and Bush?) ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/22 "2004-04-01T22:07:06Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Make no mistake, Rashak. The people we are fighting in Iraq are on the same moral, spiritual and intellectual level as the Nazis. That is not an exaggeration or a rhetorical remark, it’s an accurate assessment of the situation. Wow. That’s _your_ assessment. And it is utter BS. America is not fighting Saddam. America is occupying Iraq and fighting the Iraqis who oppose the occupation. And there seem to be plenty enough to be giving the USA a headache. Your comparison is flawed. The nazis were bad because they attacked other countries. In this case America is the attacker and Iraq is Poland. The Germans also killed those Poles who resisted. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/23 "2004-04-01T22:09:04Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > Quick, **Rashak** , get back here! Your thread is spinning into yet another anti-Bush screed! \ > > Frankly, your question is flawed and unanswerable and I really don’t see how a ‘superior force of unknown origin’ could be anybody but Martians. We have good friends to the North and South of us (who, BTW, might just have their own reaction to they let a force traipsing through their country to ours) and oceans east and west that we have a pretty good patrol on. Even if they were Martians, we have them under surveillance too 😉 NORAD patrols our skies, so we’d spot the planes dropping the parachutes. > > There’s no way we could not identify the origin of the forces, either. Every language on earth is spoken here. > > Come back and rephrase, please. Ok let me try to defend my OP a bit. First my OP makes more sense than the script of the Red Dawn movie. (Yes I am aware that there is barely a script in that movie 😃 ) People who LIKED the Red Dawn movie apparently weren’t to worried about How, Why or When of the invasion. They just enjoyed the flag waving and action… very similar to current wars we all know about. ``` I avoided establishing an Invader nations since the people would just endlessly debate why aliens or mexicans would never invade the USA. In case you didn't notice the question was rhetorical as would any invasion of the USA scenario be. (ET language is not spoken in the USA Mehabitel). Though an alien invasion was my "primary" choice. I guess besides provoking people or just because I remembered the Red Dawn movie... I made the OP. I know the differences are big... but after all the movie doesn't explain much about the background... and we could suppose that even if the US had become some crazy Theocracy that many americans wouldn't take it lightly about being "liberated" in a hostile manner. Supporting the Church or not, people don't like being invaded. The OP doesn't need a stirling and equal analogy to be useful... since any US invasion scenario is far fetched anyway. Final Point: My guess is that people who are pro-Iraq war, especially, would certainly react against any invasion just like many non-Saddam Iraqi are. The Red Dawn and the comments I read on IMDB seem to confirm this. Dogface's extreme "solutions" certainly would ring a note with extremists everywhere... or saboteurs and insurgents. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/24 "2004-04-01T22:12:30Z")
- oh forgot… as for toppling statues. Company logos in front of their Corporate buidlings would be toppled instead ! ---
**Author:** ![HumptysHamhole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f0a364/32.png) [@HumptysHamhole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumptysHamhole)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/25 "2004-04-01T22:23:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Your comparison is flawed. The nazis were bad because they attacked other countries. In this case America is the attacker and Iraq is Poland. The Germans also killed those Poles who resisted. Please tell me you aren’t serious. There are many reasons the Nazis were “bad.” Invading other countries for the purpose of permanent occupation was one of them (like Saddam - Kuwait). Another was having a corrupt government that which invested all control in one brutal dictator who controlled his nation with secret police (like Saddam). Another reason was the filling of mass graves with political dissidents and with people who weren’t racially or religiously tolerated (like Saddam). The Nazis killed a lot more Poles than just those who resisted and that is perhaps one reason why Poland supports the US in the current war against Saddam. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/26 "2004-04-01T22:25:12Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > ET language is not spoken in the USA What ignorance! Obviously, you never been to Berkeley, CA. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/27 "2004-04-01T22:46:23Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > What ignorance! Obviously, you never been to Berkeley, CA. Klingon is fictitious… not alien ! ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/28 "2004-04-01T23:11:48Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > What ignorance! Obviously, you never been to Berkeley, CA. At least you learned how to spell it right, even if you are only copy and pasting. Are you going to actually make a point, or continue trolling with fairly lame attempts at insults? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/29 "2004-04-01T23:24:42Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Are you going to actually make a point, or continue trolling with fairly lame attempts at insults? I don’t wish to insult anybody. If you carefully re-read my post where I was trying to continue on what I thought was your joke, you will see that I didn’t really implicate you at all. > [@](#): > > The person’s name was not known, so it shall remain a **Zagadka**. Zagadka in Russian means riddle, no? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2004, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/30 "2004-04-01T23:54:57Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > I would cheer if a statue of Bush were pulled down. O\_o Well, after his term, you can show your disdain by going to the newly-dedicated George Walker Bush Presidential Library (it’ll be the one filled with colouring books) and talking loudly. That’ll teach 'im. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/31 "2004-04-02T00:30:27Z")
**Zagadka** > [@](#): > > Come back when you have a point, instead of waxing idiotic. In fact, come back when you are able to comprehend a point. > > If you had passed 3rd grade reading levels, [Moderator Hat ON] Zagadka, you need to seriously work on maintaining a more civil tone here. As in, NOW. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/32 "2004-04-02T04:37:41Z")
If George Bush were a Fascist dictator, I’d welcome invasion. I’m not alone. > [@](#): > > It would certainly be a better world if war were not necessary. Yet I also remember the desperation and anger I felt when the rest of the world chose to ignore the tragedy that was drowning my people. We begged a foreign power to free us from oppression, by force if necessary. > [@](#): > > José Ramos-Horta, East Timor’s minister of foreign affairs and cooperation, shared the Nobel Peace Prize in 1996. > **[Opinion | War for Peace? It Worked in My Country (Published 2003)](https://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/25/opinion/war-for-peace-it-worked-in-my-country.html)** > > Op-Ed article by Jose Ramos-Horta, East Timor's minister for foreign affairs and cooperation and Nobel Peace Prize winner in 1996, defends US threat to use force on Iraq, calling it only truly effective means of pressuring Saddam Hussein to disarm;... ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/33 "2004-04-02T04:47:40Z")
Well, thanks for the clarification, I guess. But **Red Dawn** was taken about as seriously as the Rambo movies when it came out–ie not at all. I thought it was hilarious when foreigners took these superhero militant fantasies as having any meaning to Americans outside of the readers of ‘Soldier of Fortune’ and 14-year-old boys. Afraid you’ve been duped. Relax. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/34 "2004-04-02T05:59:38Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > People who LIKED the Red Dawn movie apparently weren’t to worried about How, Why or When of the invasion. Actually the how, and why and when were explained quite well in the first minute or two of the movie. When the Air Force Colonel joined up with the kids, he added more explanation to the how. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/35 "2004-04-02T08:00:45Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > **After reading the “methods” suggested by Dogface in this [closed thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=248392&page=1&pp=50) about leveling “rebel” cities in Iraq. I wonder how Americans would resist a military “liberation” of the mainland USA by a superior force of undetermined origin ?** Perhaps you should have used Independence Day , as your movie of choice , rather than Red Dawn. The surviving members of the invasion force will have been identified as someone. > [@](#): > > **People like Dogface naturally would drag their corpses in the street of course… other patriots and militia would start “terrorist” attacks against occupying forces. Especially considering the terrain in some parts of the USA and wide availability of guns and ammo.** People are people , some will turn over for their new masters and others will put them up against the wall when the dust settles , methods and tactics will be determined by the local situation. > [@](#): > > Anyone think I’m wrong ? That Americans would roll over and let it be ? Is the comparison TOTALLY unwarranted somehow ? There is no right or wrong only my side and their side ? Discuss. Its quite possible that some of them will roll over , but in reality most areas under occupation would do so under duress , not one thing more than absolutely nessecary to survive , while working with the underground. But I do believe there is no comparison, the idea of a terrestrial invasion of America has no real bite to it, you would have to have some of the military dopers guess about the logistics of an invasion , playing the red force. How many corps would be required , that sort of thing. If the invasion is staged out of Canada , by some third party nation , then its likely that Canada will have been targetted for some instant sunshine , in likely or scoped out staging areas ,and the same with the land route via mexico. A seaborne invasion is likely to become the million man swim , depending on how many actually survive. An invasion of America proper , would be a war to the knife , and I don’t doubt that any person in the world would soon learn what its like to have a very pissed off america. Be careful what you wish for. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/36 "2004-04-02T09:09:49Z")
Blame Canada? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/37 "2004-04-02T12:52:54Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Wow. That’s _your_ assessment. And it is utter BS. America is not fighting Saddam. America is occupying Iraq and fighting the Iraqis who oppose the occupation. And there seem to be plenty enough to be giving the USA a headache. > > Your comparison is flawed. The nazis were bad because they attacked other countries. In this case America is the attacker and Iraq is Poland. The Germans also killed those Poles who resisted. Oh, yeah, right. The \* Baathists \* are innocent victims of oppression. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/38 "2004-04-02T13:09:07Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Oh, yeah, right. The \* Baathists \* are innocent victims of oppression. :rolleyes: It is so easy to just say the only ones fighting back are “baathists” and leave it at that. Well, to me it seems it’s a lot more than baathists and, in any case, I wouldn’t care. The USA had no legal right to attack, invade and occupy Iraq. Their only right derives from saying “I will because I can”. Ok, but don’t complain if the other side does what they can too. The way I see it, they have all the right in the world to resist an invasion and occupation just like Americans would have the right to do if their country was invaded. American has no right to go into a country and change regimes it doesnot like just like other countries have no right to go to Washington and topple the government. If other countries allow the USA to govern itself, I can’t see why other countries should not be allowed the same right. If the USA has the right to invade a country to change the political system, I can’t see how other countries do not enjoy the same right with respect to the USA. And if might makes right, then you can’t complain about anyone using force. Everyone is entitled to use force by this standard. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/39 "2004-04-02T13:39:35Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > It is so easy to just say the only ones fighting back are “baathists” and leave it at that. Well, to me it seems it’s a lot more than baathists and, in any case, I wouldn’t care. The USA had no legal right to attack, invade and occupy Iraq. Their only right derives from saying “I will because I can”. Ok, but don’t complain if the other side does what they can too. The way I see it, they have all the right in the world to resist an invasion and occupation just like Americans would have the right to do if their country was invaded. > > American has no right to go into a country and change regimes it doesnot like just like other countries have no right to go to Washington and topple the government. If other countries allow the USA to govern itself, I can’t see why other countries should not be allowed the same right. > > If the USA has the right to invade a country to change the political system, I can’t see how other countries do not enjoy the same right with respect to the USA. > > And if might makes right, then you can’t complain about anyone using force. Everyone is entitled to use force by this standard. Sailor, if you’re seriously going to maintain that there is no important moral difference between the Coalition forces and the rebels they’re fighting, then something is horribly, horribly wrong with your mind, and I will not try to reason with you. Take a good look at my tagline. It applies to you. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2004, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718/40 "2004-04-02T14:14:24Z")
One of my points is pointing out that not all “insurgents” are Baathists. In the beggining of the occupation probably they were in greater numbers. More and more are not Saddam men… but disgruntled youth. How many disgruntled youth do you think there are in Iraq ? Many just want to lash out… and the guns are easy enough to find. Do not go for the folly of beleiving that being against the US invasion is sympathy for the devil or Saddam. Independence day could have been one of the examples of course… though it would be a different kind of resistance. Now imagine if aliens had attempted some kind of Bullshit about making the earth a peaceful place and proceeded about destroying military facilities everywhere ? How many would just stand by ? When these same aliens started patrolling US streets ? Still conjecturing specific scenarios for an invasion can be done in other threads… my scenario is overwhelming forces taking over the US. Regular military forces offering no more resistance. ``` As for Red Dawn I know most SMDB members see it what it is for... silly and fantasy. Still some people don't. They enjoy the idea that the US would never give in or like Declan put it: ``` > [@](#): > > An invasion of America proper , would be a war to the knife , and I don’t doubt that any person in the world would soon learn what its like to have a very pissed off america. Be careful what you wish for. ``` Yep Americans don't quit and roll over... and neither it seem do Iraqis. ``` [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-americans-resist-an-invasion-of-the-us-itself/237718.md?page=3)