Several hits from torpedoes would probably do the trick-esp. if they hit the right spots.
I can’t imagine that this is true. If it were, I suspect that carrier battle groups would be a hell of a lot smaller, as the hypothetical repair bills for that damaged but unsunk carrier would surely be smaller than the construction and operation costs of the horde of smaller vessels that protect it.
A previous discussion of the vulnerability, or lack thereof, of modern aircraft carriers: Aircraft carriers: floating coffins? - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board
Full article here. I think that “survival” actually means if they were later refloated and “paricipated” would be a better word than fought.
Actually wrong link.
Also a number of U-boat pens, similarly meant to be impenetrable. You can roof something with fourteen feet of reinforced concrete and cover it with earth on top, but if someone drops a ten-ton streamlined chunk of metal from high altitude and it damn near hits Mach 1 on the way down, it’s going to leave a mark - even before it goes bang. Btw Zak, I believe you meant 617 Squadron - who carried out a number of these missions after they were done busting dams.
I believe the Russian Granit missile (aka Shipwreck) was meant to be a carrier killer. A hit from one of those may or may not sink a modern US carrier but it would likely get a mission kill and put the ship out of action at the least.
Of course the missile is over 30 feet long and weighs over 15000 pounds so not many platforms could fire one.
Very recently it has been in the news that China has built a carrier-killer missile that is not nuclear. (cite)
Carriers are nowhere near as armored as a battleship. Their survivability stems from sheer size and making sure nothing that could seriously threaten it gets close in the first place.
When it comes to taking hits and surviving my money is on a battleship.
Yep. I either typoed the number or had a minor brain malfunction. Thanks for the correction.
1-the Japanese used the same 4,500 lbs high speed paper airplane from '41 to Dec. '45. By late '42/early '43 the Germans and Americans had faster, heavier planes with armored plates (20,000 lbs.)
2-the US 40 mm quad Bofors are the best AA weapon of WWII-but that’s against Japanese paper airplanes, not faster armored planes
3-Iowa wasn’t designed to fight at point blank, the US out numbered all adversaries by 100:1, she would have had an escort of 14+ battleships, 30+ heavy cruisers, 30+ light cruisers, 60+ destroyers, 80+ escort destroyers, 10+ aircraft carriers = 400+planes
4-Iowa’s torpedo protection, there is none.
5-Iowa’s main guns weren’t working at the time of the war. She had to go back to port to have her guns re-aligned (sights aligned) and her radar installed.
6-Iowa’s main battery had some kick back issues, solved in 1980 by firing from left, right and then center gun with a one second delay between the firing of each gun. The usual 0.06 second delay on the center gun just didn’t do the trick which was used when she was launched and commissioned.
The only ships that could shoot down US and German aircraft in mid '43 and later would be the Japanese Akizuki’s with their 100 mm 65 cal. guns. If you had six or so you would be able to shoot most of the US aircraft down. Or six US Des Moines Heavy cruisers which would certainly be much better than the Akizuki’s.
Swapping Yami for Iowa in Yami’s last battle keeping all factors the same. Iowa would go down after 3 torpedo hits and 2 bombs. Iowa’s belt decap plate actually makes her armor thinner, that’s why the Montana’s didn’t have it. Yami was built to fight at point blank and that’s why her armor was so thick and no fleet of battleships could beat her at point blank or even at long ranges as even her deck armor was invincible to any Battleship weapon/group of Battleship weapons. If Yamato did shoot down 10 planes (I don’t think she did, I thought it was more like 5 or 6 and most of those ran out of fuel and fell into the ocean). Then Iowa would certainly shoot down maybe 20, no more as she would sink much faster from the bombs and torpedoes. Iowa’s 40 mm AA guns out range Yamato’s 25 mm by 300% and they are a little more accurate at 300% than Yamato’s triple 25 mm. But when you have 400 planes coming at you from everywhere, it is pretty had to concentrate on one target as bullets are also coming from everywhere. It is not as easy as picking one and shooting it down…
Iowa’s Torpedo protection: she was designed to fit through the Panama Canal so they had to skip out on the torpedo protection. One or the other, you can’t have both!
It takes 22 seconds to load a US 16 inch Mark 7 gun. It takes 14 seconds to load Yamato’s 18 inch gun. So I’m really not sure how the Iowa’s 16 inch mark 7 guns can fire 2-3 times faster than Yamtao’s guns. But the Japanese 18 inch guns were still more powerful and had a further range. If a US 16 inch mark 7 can punch through 28" of armor plate at 42,000 yards than the Japanese 18" / 45 can punch through29" of armor plate at 46,000 yards
I’ll go grab one Japanese Ikazuki Destroyers and sink one of today’s Super Carriers with four Long Lance torpedo’s. These things are 6,000 lbs of atomic nature. Today’s torpedoes don’t even come close to a Japanese Long Lance Torpedoes, other than the guidance systems. Type 93 Torpedoes I think they were called, speed up to 50 knots and range of some 25+ miles (40+km).
But that is notoriously inaccurate. There are factual errors in nearly every single line.
A real zombie and a lot of the posters are no longer with us.
However the Iowa’s did have anti torpedo bprotection and bulkheads. I don’t know about the only ships capable of downing an 20,000 aircraft were 65 mm that the Japanese posessed- mayny such aircraft were bought down by light flak and lighter armed fighter aircraft.
Would the Iowa have survived? It may help to remember that no US battleship was lost to Japanese airpower after Pearl Harbour. And to sink the Musashi took more aircraft against it than were concentrated against the fleet at Pearl Harbour.
Iowa class torpedo protection system was considered unsatisfactory by the USN.
Cite? Wiki states it was altered. It doesn’t say it was unsatisfactory. Given, as I mention in my post, none were lost to air power it can’t have been too unsatisfactory.
Iron Ladies with Glass Skirts. Although the document is about the sufficiency of the protection of the reactivated Iowas it also spends some time discussing the fact that the USN tests in ‘39 and ‘43 revealed major deficiencies versus then contemporary threats.
TL: DR, the protection was designed to defeat torpedoed of the early to mid thirties, not the latest Japanese and German ones.
If you want to explore the topic there is a free-to-play simulation, World of Warships (YouTube ad), that models armor and weapon characteristics pretty accurately. The game itself is an arcade game – the battles last a maximum of twenty minutes, battleships can accelerate to full speed in less than two minutes, and destroyers can reload torpedoes during the course of the battle for example – but the characteristics are different enough to require developing a style of play that varies by ship.
There are ten levels (called tiers) in each line; Iowa is tier IX in the American line, and Yamato is tier X for the Japanese and she pretty much strikes fear into everyone when one appears on the other side, and your side hasn’t any. It will take you a while to get that high. I’ve been playing casually for 20 months now and my highest ship is tier IX.
Shameless plug: Use this invitation to set up your account and we both get stuff, some of it right away and some of it after you’ve stuck with it a while…
I play this too.
Loads of fun.
The ship models in the game are very close to their originals and look great which adds to the fun.
“On her deck were guns as big as steers and shells as big as trees” JoHnny just got that backwards.
“Ten hours away from homeland the Bismarck made its run” 10 hours from Brest.
Combined Fleet rates their anti-torpedo scheme as a 9/10.
When I do have more time (which this afternoon I don’t), I’ll check out your link.