# How would I, a Gentile, go about attending a Seder? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 12, 2011, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070 "2011-04-12T09:48:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/41 "2011-04-13T18:15:46Z")
P.S. Modox and Chabad groups have always been the most welcoming (to me) when I was a new person somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/42 "2011-04-13T18:25:29Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > In my limited Conservative experience, there are usually two Seders so you can attend a community one and either your own or a friend’s. In the Reform tradition as I understand it, there is only one Seder. The Reform movement does not observe the “This Isn’t Israel” second day of festivals. In the Conservative, Orthodox, and (I think) most non-Ashkenazi traditions, there are two Seders outside Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/43 "2011-04-13T19:15:56Z")
We have a couple of “30 minute” Haggadas, which get the service over quickly. My son in Boston has invited us to visit so we can conduct a seder for him, his non-Jewish wife and his 4 yo son. We will bring the 30 minute Haggadas. A 4 yo cannot last much beyond that in any case. I would keep away from the Chabad. When I was a kid, I remember going every year to a seder at an orthodox relative’s. The service lasted several hours. I was bored to tears and starving by the time they got to the meal. The food was excellent, of course, but I had to go hours with nothing but a couple glasses of grape juice to sustain me. I thoroughly enjoyed the singing afterward. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/44 "2011-04-13T19:24:06Z")
How can you have a 30 minute Seder when the meal itself can take over an hour? The communal meal is one item of the order. \ One of the greatest changes in my family’s Seders was when we learned to pass around lots of veggies after the Karpas item. Once the blessing over vegetables is said, eat peppers, celery, and carrots! (I’ll be making a fruit salad too – berries, grapes, bananas, maybe melons. Vine fruits are covered under the blessing for vegetables.) ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/45 "2011-04-13T20:11:48Z")
FYI - grapes and most berries are considered fruits of trees, not vegetables. (Strawberries are ‘fruits of the ground,’ like a veggie.) For a karpas fruit salad, stick with the melons, bananas, and strawberries. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/46 "2011-04-13T20:32:12Z")
> [@GilaB](#): > > For a karpas fruit salad, stick with the melons, bananas, and strawberries. Man, I hate Jewish food! Except for hummus, and falafel. And stuffed cabbage. And brisket. And haroset. And roast beef sandwiches at Rubens’s in Boston. And… ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/47 "2011-04-13T20:41:49Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > It is my understanding that the current thinking is that the Last Supper was NOT a seder. How could it have been? Jesus was a Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/48 "2011-04-13T20:43:52Z")
> [@GilaB](#): > > FYI - grapes and most berries are considered fruits of trees, not vegetables. (Strawberries are ‘fruits of the ground,’ like a veggie.) For a karpas fruit salad, stick with the melons, bananas, and strawberries. Huh. I thought blue/black/raspberries were _p’ri adamah_. It’s important to get this correct. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/49 "2011-04-13T20:51:30Z")
Took too long to edit. I found at [http://rabbikaganoff.com/archives/1527](http://rabbikaganoff.com/archives/1527) a reference to Rashi saying that coconut is pri adamah, not pri etz. And multiple sites hold that cranberries and raspberries are pri adamah. So the fruit salad will be cran/rasp/strawberries, melons, bananas, and papayas. Yum! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/50 "2011-04-13T21:08:10Z")
> [@bardos](#): > > How could it have been? Jesus was a Christian. Well, there you go! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/51 "2011-04-13T21:36:21Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Yeah, and don’t sit in Elijah’s seat and drink his wine. :o Even if you’re Elijah? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/52 "2011-04-13T22:47:15Z")
Technically, a seder must be open to any who wish to attend. OTTOMH “He that is hungry, come let him eat.” Everything is explained in detail at a decent seder. “This unleavened bread, what does it mean?” “Why on this night do we recline?” “How can it be said that there were two hundred and fifty plagues?” If the expected annual invite from certain friends is not forthcoming, I will clean up my place and invite two friends (a Wiccan with a Jewish father, and a Wiccan/ lapsed Christian) to seder as they are always interested in learning about other faiths. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/53 "2011-04-13T23:06:37Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > In the Reform tradition as I understand it, there is only one Seder. The Reform movement does not observe the “This Isn’t Israel” second day of festivals. > > In the Conservative, Orthodox, and (I think) most non-Ashkenazi traditions, there are two Seders outside Israel. Weirdly enough, my Reform shul back in Iowa observed two Seders. Or at least, most congregants did. But they were a shade more traditional than most. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/54 "2011-04-13T23:07:58Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I had a raccoon show up on the porch upon opening the door for Elijah at my first home Seder. One year we had Jehovah’s witnesses. The funny part is that they knocked _right_ after the door/Elijah part. I was kind of thinking, uh dude, wrong door. The hostess was SO pissed. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/55 "2011-04-14T02:15:17Z")
> [@SCSimmons](#): > > Even if you’re Elijah? That was Jeremiah (but he wasn’t a part of the plague). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/56 "2011-04-14T02:18:58Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > “How can it be said that there were two hundred and fifty plagues?” I don’t recall that one, and I can’t find Telushkin right now. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/57 "2011-04-14T02:31:32Z")
From the language used, it can be argued that each plague was fourfold so forty plagues. But from that same language, it can be argued that each plague was fivefold so fifty plagues. But it further says that each plague was the “finger of G-d”, and it goes on to say that at the Red Sea the Egyptians saw “The fist of G-d”. If a finger is fifty plagues, a whole fist is five times as many so two hundred and fifty plagues. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/58 "2011-04-14T02:38:35Z")
Thanks, Doc. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/59 "2011-04-14T15:44:14Z")
I second the Hillel suggestion. If you are a current student of the school, then there may be laws or policies on nondiscrimination that require them to admit you. If you aren’t affiliated, I don’t know if they can refuse you - it may depend on their policy and the school’s. I believe that organizations at public colleges in the US can get in serious trouble with the university (e.g. being barred from reserving rooms for X months) for discrimination in attendance and membership. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070/60 "2011-04-14T15:53:39Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Step 1. Find a Jew. > Step 2. Ask them if they’re having a passover seder. > Step 3. Say, “so, I’ve always been curious about seders and I like free food. Can I come?” > Step 4. Prepare to be exceptionally bored as some old guy reads about how this night is different from every other night, yadda yadda bullshit bullshit, as the hostess places course after course of delicious food in front of you which you are not allowed to eat until the completion of yet another absurd ritual. You forgot two steps. Step 5. ??? Step 6. Profit! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-i-a-gentile-go-about-attending-a-seder/578070.md?page=4)