# How would reparations work? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 21, 2017, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113 "2017-05-21T01:01:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/41 "2017-05-22T02:59:12Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Nonsense. Stereotypes don’t originate in the behavior of black people. They originate in the minds of racists. It doesn’t matter what black people actually do; racists will just believe they’re doing something regardless of what the facts are. I don’t quite agree with this - while it may be true that, even if Group X stops a certain behavior, that the stereotypes of Group X may still persist for a long time unfairly afterwards - most stereotypes don’t arise out of the blue, in terms of how they came to be in the first place. It is not something merely fabricated in the minds of racists, as if suddenly everyone decided to formulate this idea that black kids are good at basketball, Asian kids are good at math, etc. for no good reason. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/42 "2017-05-22T03:03:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Nonsense. Stereotypes don’t originate in the behavior of black people. They originate in the minds of racists. It doesn’t matter what black people actually do; racists will just believe they’re doing something regardless of what the facts are. I hear this all the time and you are flat wrong. I live right next to a college 95% of the kids coming in and out of the school are doing the right thing at any given time but the 5% that are not doing the right thing are about 90% black kids. Nothing horrible or violent just bad mouthing girls, harassing businesses, using load and bad language things like that. We are all representing our race or sex or any other group we happen to belong to. If too many of us that fit into any group are doing the wrong thing on a regular basis we are maligning our entire group. The blacks have a huge problem with this. They have a very sizable percentage misrepresenting the group and giving people a reason to suspect the group. recognizing a threat is one of the most basic instincts in any creature humans included. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/43 "2017-05-22T03:31:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Nonsense. Stereotypes don’t originate in the behavior of black people. They originate in the minds of racists. It doesn’t matter what black people actually do; racists will just believe they’re doing something regardless of what the facts are. I was aware of a lot of stereotypes of black people when I was growing up, and for the most part wondered why they existed because all the black people that _I_ knew weren’t anything like that at all. Eventually I got a low-level job that was staffed with a large number of black people who conformed to the stereotypes. The problem was that I was seeing only a subset of black people previously, namely those successful enough such that they were interacting with a moderately well-off white person. Those people had thrown the stereotypes behind them, and had been successfully integrated into the rest of society. But the black co-workers I had were a completely different story. Working with those people really started to turn me into something of a racist despite an extremely liberal upbringing; the only thing that kept me away from that completely was the fact that all those stereotypes _also_ applied to the poor white people who worked there! From what I can tell, almost all the bad stereotypes that people have of black people are simply stereotypes of poor people. These are absolutely due to the actions and thought patterns of those on the lower end of the socioeconomic scale. The point: the stereotypical behaviors are absolutely associated with things black people actually do, but it’s not because they are black - it’s simply because they’re poor. Blacks that get raised out of poverty stop behaving in stereotypical fashion - at least in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/44 "2017-05-22T04:41:20Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > And I’m saying they wouldn’t, not without a lot of resistance at least. And I’m saying it would. I’m saying you’re not going to get white people to agree to pay reparations and maintain AA for blacks afterwards. You cannot pass legislation regarding reparation without the buy-in of white people. > [@](#): > > To benefit from AA, an individual does not have to prove they are the descendent of an American slave or a black American who lived through Jim Crow. Affirmative Action is not intended to address inequalities stemming from slavery and Jim Crow, but rather mitigate the effects of _present-day_ discrimination. You’re looking thru the wrong end of the telescope. Yes, it’s true that you can be non-black and get AA now. What I’m saying is that once reparations are paid, you won’t be able t be black and get AA. You’ll still be able to be female, Hispanic or some other suspect class and still be eligible for AA. But not black. Black people got reparations, and so we’re all square. (Whether this is right or wrong is beside the point. White people will think it’s right.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/45 "2017-05-22T05:00:31Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I hear this all the time and you are flat wrong. I live right next to a college 95% of the kids coming in and out of the school are doing the right thing at any given time but the 5% that are not doing the right thing are about 90% black kids. Nothing horrible or violent just bad mouthing girls, harassing businesses, using load and bad language things like that. We are all representing our race or sex or any other group we happen to belong to. If too many of us that fit into any group are doing the wrong thing on a regular basis we are maligning our entire group. The blacks have a huge problem with this. They have a very sizable percentage misrepresenting the group and giving people a reason to suspect the group. recognizing a threat is one of the most basic instincts in any creature humans included. Nope, it’s racism. When you see a handful of white kids acting like fools, you think, _“Boy, those kids are acting like fools.”_ When you see a handful of black kids acting like fools, you think, _“Boy, black kids act like fools.”_ I wish I had a dime for every racist who denied they were a racist and claimed they were just telling the truth about what those people are like. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/46 "2017-05-22T12:15:47Z")
Give the Pacific Northwest and Great Plains back to the Native Americans, give California, Texas, and the Southwest back to Mexico (already in progress), let black people have New England and the Great Lakes, and let whites have Dixie. This would be more meaningful than a couple thousand dollars and would allow victims of white imperialism to forge their own destinies. Plus all the liberal whites moving to the South would drown out the conservative vote, so that’s a bonus. > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I wasn’t being flippant when I mentioned war. Americans are one of the most pacified populations on the planet. The only time they come close to war is Black Friday and when they miss the breakfast menu. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/47 "2017-05-22T12:24:57Z")
The only way I can think of for reparations to work is to focus it strictly on African-Americans that have three out of four grandparents who are also African-American, as opposed to islander or African. And then you basically say that all people who qualify get free college and postgraduate education. For those currently above 25 years old, you could reduce the retirement age to 55 for them on condition that they have a steady work history and no criminal record. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/48 "2017-05-22T12:33:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > We shouldn’t pay people who have suffered or are suffering from discriminatory policies and practices. We should end the discriminatory policies and practices. > > If we start substituting monetary compensation for genuine reform, some people might decide it’s easier to just let discrimination continue. We’ll avoid the social upheaval of fixing our race problems. Instead we’ll just mail black people a check every year to compensate them for all the racism they have to put up with. So you think it was wrong to institute reparations for Japanese internment, or for Germany to do so for Holocaust survivors? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/49 "2017-05-22T12:35:39Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I don’t quite agree with this - while it may be true that, even if Group X stops a certain behavior, that the stereotypes of Group X may still persist for a long time unfairly afterwards - most stereotypes don’t arise out of the blue, in terms of how they came to be in the first place. It is not something merely fabricated in the minds of racists, as if suddenly everyone decided to formulate this idea that black kids are good at basketball, Asian kids are good at math, etc. for no good reason. The stereotype of black people as inherently violent, animalistic, and a threat to white women long predates any actual crime statistics, and was used entirely to rationalize their enslavement. Consider that in the 1700s and 1800s, white men were a nigh-infinitely greater threat to black women than black men were to white women… but there was no stereotype about white men raping black women, despite the fact that a huge number of black women had been raped by white men. That stereotype originated from nothing except as justification for brutality. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/50 "2017-05-22T12:51:29Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Setting aside the morality issue for a moment, and only examining the practicality involved - can a reparation supporter please propose a specific dollar sum (rounded up or down to the nearest hundred-billion?) > > If for instance, 25 million Americans are owed an average of $40,000 apiece, that would total $1 trillion. Let’s use that as the benchmark and adjust up or down as needed. > > Do you think the number of Americans (not just black, but also gay/Hispanic/Native American/atheist/Asian/Arab/etc.) who need reparations is greater than, or lesser than, 25 million? > > Do you think the sum owed to each, on average, would be greater than, or lesser than, $40,000? (As someone mentioned above, the $20,000 paid to the Japanese-Americans wouldn’t cover the loss of their property in California which would have been worth millions today.) We also have to take inflation into account. > > If it were 50 million Americans, and each owed $80,000 on average, that would be $4 trillion. > > How high should taxes be? If we doubled taxes on the wealthy, including capital gains tax, for several decades, would that cover it? Should the middle class’s tax rate go up, too? Would the economy be able to withstand it? Do we cut anything else in the federal budget to make this work, and if so, how? > > Finally, would SCOTUS recognize this reparation proposal as Constitutional? It may not fall into the exact same legal criteria as the Japanese-American case. All of these are reasonable questions worth discussing. I don’t have all the answers, and it’s not necessary to have answers ready when suggesting that reparations ought to be considered as a moral and practical necessity. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/51 "2017-05-22T13:07:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you think it was wrong to institute reparations for Japanese internment, or for Germany to do so for Holocaust survivors? Those were one time events and the actual victims were easily identifiable. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/52 "2017-05-22T13:07:49Z")
Racism is a human tragedy of epic proportions. I don’t believe wasting time on placing blame is a productive way to stamp it out. It is not driven by good or evil but more on emotional dynamics and lack of understanding. I can sympathize with a black man or woman who takes a defensive " I don’t give a shit" attitude. It is not easy to say I tried and failed, especially when it is through no fault of your own. I can sympathize with a black man who abandons his family that he was unable to properly support, his manhood is at stake in a no win situation. Things like this are too painful for most of us to stand up to. Society needs to respect and acknowledge men and woman who put out the effort. It makes the cross a little easier to bare and encourages behavior that will eventually demolish these stereo types. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/53 "2017-05-22T13:08:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Those were one time events and the actual victims were easily identifiable. So was red-lining. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/54 "2017-05-22T13:11:11Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Racism is a human tragedy of epic proportions. I don’t believe wasting time on placing blame is a productive way to stamp it out. It is not driven by good or evil but more on emotional dynamics and lack of understanding. I can sympathize with a black man or woman who takes a defensive " I don’t give a shit" attitude. It is not easy to say I tried and failed, especially when it is through no fault of your own. I can sympathize with a black man who abandons his family that he was unable to properly support, his manhood is at stake in a no win situation. Things like this are too painful for most of us to stand up to. Society needs to respect and acknowledge men and woman who put out the effort. It makes the cross a little easier to bare and encourages behavior that will eventually demolish these stereo types. You just tried to blame the existence of stereotypes on some of the victims of those stereotypes. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/55 "2017-05-22T13:11:27Z")
Were there every any class action lawsuits over the practice? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/56 "2017-05-22T13:12:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Were there every any class action lawsuits over the practice? I don’t know. Would it change things if there had been, or hadn’t been? ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/57 "2017-05-22T13:17:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You just tried to blame the existence of stereotypes on some of the victims of those stereotypes. The victims just happen to be part of a group that perpetuates a stereo type. They are true innocent victims. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/58 "2017-05-22T13:19:40Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > The victims just happen to be part of a group that perpetuates a stereo type. They are true innocent victims. Bullshit. As long as a single black person commits a violent act, racists will feel like their racist beliefs are justified. Stereotypes were based on bullshit from the beginning. Why was there no stereotype of white men raping black women? That probably happened hundreds or even thousands of more times in the 1800s than the reverse. It’s because they’re based on nothing but the whims of those in power. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/59 "2017-05-22T13:23:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t know. Would it change things if there had been, or hadn’t been? Yes, because it would imply an existing remedy. I don’t favor reparations precisely because the details are so difficult and messy. If someone proposed a nice, clean reparations solution that was narrowly tailored to victims of the legacy of slavery, similar to ones I suggested(free college and/or early Social Security for African-Americans only), then I could support that. But this is the kind of issue where we do actually need to get specific on methods and on reasoning. It can’t just be about “racism” because everyone is a victim of racism, some more than others. The legacy of slavery and Jim Crow specifically though, affects only a particular group of people, and excludes Latinos, Asians, whites, Native Americans, and non-Americans of African descent. I don’t want a situation where the people who need it least get the most. Affirmative Action in university admissions has often been more to the benefit of Caribbean Islanders, biracial individuals, and African immigrants than African-Americans. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113/60 "2017-05-22T13:24:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yes, because it would imply an existing remedy. > > I don’t favor reparations precisely because the details are so difficult and messy. If someone proposed a nice, clean reparations solution that was narrowly tailored to victims of the legacy of slavery, similar to ones I suggested(free college and/or early Social Security for African-Americans only), then I could support that. But this is the kind of issue where we do actually need to get specific on methods and on reasoning. It can’t just be about “racism” because everyone is a victim of racism, some more than others. The legacy of slavery and Jim Crow specifically though, affects only a particular group of people, and excludes Latinos, Asians, whites, Native Americans, and non-Americans of African descent. > > I don’t want a situation where the people who need it least get the most. Affirmative Action in university admissions has often been more to the benefit of Caribbean Islanders, biracial individuals, and African immigrants than African-Americans. Jesus, did you read the goddamn posts in this thread? I suggested starting with a very specific issue, like redlining, that affected living Americans. There’s no need to start with slavery, or discrimination as a whole. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-reparations-work/787113.md?page=4)