# How would Right Wingers feel about arming illegal immigrants? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 19, 2019, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911 "2019-08-19T22:56:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/21 "2019-08-20T10:27:13Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > So I have an apparently not so crazy idea, since the 2nd amendment is suppose to be in place so we can fend off a tyrannical government, what if we gave firearms to the people who apparently need them the most, illegals. So bare with me here, the idea most right wing gun nuts and some 2nd amendment advocates have is that if the Government came into our community, started mass rounding people up, and throwing them in cages, we would stand up and defend ourselves. This is an idea that I’ve heard from virtually everyone who’s pro gun or pro 2nd amendment. Now considering this, shouldn’t we be arming the illegals so they can protect themselves from the feds coming and snatching them up? Your proposal shows a startling lack of understanding of the conservative thought process. Conservatives have a particular view of what “their America” should be like, based on their particular ideology. When they talk about “tyrants” and “enemies of America”, they are talking about people who don’t believe in that ideology. Where liberals see Trump and the Republicans as imperialist tyrants, invading other countries, taking away rights from “people who crossed the border illegally”, minorities and so on, conservatives see them as defending America for “true Americans”. Was the right wing particularly on board with Occupy Wall Street or Black Lives Matter expressing their 1st Amendment rights? No. How do you think they would feel about arming them? Right wingers would be very much against arming illegal immigrants because those are the very people they believe the 2nd Amendment is there to protect them against. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/22 "2019-08-20T13:18:38Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I disagree with your premise that enforcing legitimate immigration law is tyrannical. Having the second amendment as a hedge against the possibility of a tyrannical government at some point in time doesn’t mean that the government is currently tyrannical. Okay first of all, lets clarify this for you buddy. Most of the undocumented people were not declassified to the federal governemnt. You following me bud? Okay now what happens when the feds cant get their hands on current undocuments, they resort older undocumented cases. They start deporting people who’ve been in this country since they were a fucking infant and deport them to countries they’ve never been to or know anything about. This is to meet a federal quota set by the Trump admin. Second of all, this has 0 to do with enforcing legitimate immigration law. Mass rounding up fucking people, especially when you get dozens if not hundreds of legal US citizens involved is by all right wing standards an act of tyranny. What part of fucking federal agents raiding your god damn community does not trigger the right wing notion of big government overstepping thei rfucking boundaries to you? Third, do you want to be specific? Are we just talking about the cases of people who been in this country for 40+ years, or people who served our god damn military being deported? What exactly are we talking about here. Are we talking about asylum seekers being illegally punished for seeking asylum? You need to be specific, i expect you to reply. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/23 "2019-08-20T13:20:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > First, if we’re going to call people who entered the country illegally “illegals” then we should call everyone who’s ever broken a law an illegal. Got a speeding ticket, a DUI, or a marijuana bust in your past? You’re an illegal now. > > Second, I think the OP is missing the most obvious grounds for conservatives to object to this proposal; the idea of _giving_ guns and ammunition to people. Even the staunchest Second Amendment supporter only says that he has a constitutional right to _buy_ firearms. I haven’t seen anyone saying he has a right to be given them for free. Do not conflate criminals with undocumented immigrants. Tired of seeing this kind of nonsense posts by you. Also what the FUCK do you think a god damn militia is? Are you going to report me for using vulgar language to express this fucking point. Let me drill this into your head because you’ve specific repeatedly used this intellectual dishonestly. You can be a private citizen, and you can be sold privately arms. Militias often distribute arms among themselves. You’ve clearly taken the point of this thread out of context to further your own personal narrative. In no way, am I saying someone whos been criminalized is now an illegal, LAst I checked the federal government does not go around revoking peoples citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/24 "2019-08-20T13:27:14Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > … What part of fucking federal agents raiding your god damn community does not trigger the right wing notion of big government overstepping thei rfucking boundaries to you? … I’m not **octopus** , but I’ll answer anyways: the part where their “raids” are an enforcement action against people who violated our laws. That is to say: enforcing immigration laws is precisely _within_ “thei rfucking boundaries”. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/25 "2019-08-20T13:30:11Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > So we can turn Berkeley into an armed camp? I’m not really a right-winger, but I’m happy to try that type of social experiment. Let’s also mandate liberalism indoctrination sessions so the immigrants are taught the value of political correctness, how to be woke, tofu recipes, and the latest plans for Marxist global socialism. Should bringing the AR-15’s (Why not M-16’s? Shouldn’t we be giving these immigrants every advantage?) to the lectures be optional or mandatory? Let’s see dozens of federal agents get shot dead in the streets and see how fast fox news goes to turn against firearms and arming those in need of protection. And yes, I was actually thinking M16s would be better than ARs since theyr e more powerful but obviosuly since ARs are more popular than M16s And no I dont think thats a good idea. What relationship does liberalism, socialism, and globalism have in the conversation about pointing out the right wingers would be anti-gun if we armed illegal immigrants to fend of federal agents? Please explain because I see 0 correlation in the two topics, please stay on track here. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/26 "2019-08-20T13:33:06Z")
I can’t imagine anything turning most of the country against illegal immigrants faster than having them murder a bunch of federal agents just doing their job. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/27 "2019-08-20T13:33:31Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > English is not a prescriptive language; I support the use of the noun “illegal(s)” as meaning “undocumented immigrant,” because it means being present illegally in this country. Oh, and you know what? I support open borders. Economic freedom is the freedom to emigrate and immigrate. But laws are laws, and if you break the the law, you are acting in an illegal fashion. Back to the first sentence regarding prescriptivism: “illegal” is commonly understood, and to fight it is pretty stupid. Instead of going against the tide, please join those of us who support the argument for open borders rather than argue over meaningless semantics. > > You’re here illegally? You’re “an illegal.” Sorry about that, but some day we will eliminate that distinction. Do you believe the US government should separate and lock up legal asylum seekers? A) IF so, and they know so, that says a lot more about the reason why the fled here than it does their character. B) Its not illegal for an asylum seeker to cross the border, or do anything to get into this country to claim asylum. The premise here is if you are in fucking danger, you can travel to somewhere safe. If you disagree then do this, go become a legal scholar, go the UN, and convince them to change article 14 of the UDHR and revise article 31 paragraph 8 of the ICCPR. Thanks k bye. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/28 "2019-08-20T13:35:17Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I can’t imagine anything turning most of the country against illegal immigrants faster than having them murder a bunch of federal agents just doing their job. It’s a great point, not a literal proposal. I guess a right winger who genuinely thinks murdering half the jewish population on the fucking planet is justified wouldn’t understand that though would they? Oh wait, you dont think thats okay? But it is okay to not give immigrant children medical treatment, to lock their parents and siblings inside cages, and punish people who came this country fleeing from danger? I honestly dont think there is a single fucking thing you have to say in good faith. Edit: Report me ban me for calling out somebody who always brings a bad faith argument to the table and never has any intention of conceding a single position or point because they emotionally invest themselves into positions they never reasoned themselves into. I already know what’ll happen by me calling you out on your bullshit buddy. congratulations. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/29 "2019-08-20T13:39:12Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > So let’s say a saunctuary city or state decides to arm every illegal immigrant. We give them AR15s, body armor, and thousands of mags. How would the right respond to this? How I predict the Racist Right would respond: **“They aren’t US citizens so the 2nd amendment does not apply to them. Take their guns away and send them back where they came from.”** That’s the polite version. I have had politically right-wing people of my acquaintance assert that it’s OK to lock people up in appalling conditions because they aren’t citizens of the US and therefore have no rights whatsoever - no right to lawyers, no right to contact with the outside world, no right to showers, toilets, clean clothes, showers, medicine, the custody of their children, no right to anything. I find it a disgusting attitude, yet there it is. No, they’re not going to approve giving those people guns! How ridiculous. There will then be the corollary that the right-wingers will call for those who gave guns, etc. to the illegal aliens to be locked up for breaking the laws regarding buying guns for others and straw purchasers. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/30 "2019-08-20T13:39:56Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > … I honestly dont think there is a single fucking thing you have to say in good faith. … “If you want to try to arm the “illegals”, I’ll gladly report you to the ATF so that they can apprehend and prosecute you” was said in sincerity and good faith (along with various other posts in this thread and others). ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/31 "2019-08-20T13:40:43Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > The bill of rights apply to all persons including illegals. The 2nd amendment does apply, as well as the 1st, third, fourth, and so on. Not everyone agrees with that position. > [@](#): > > If not, let’s say illegals had 0 rights… then whats stopping police from violating everyones 4th amendment right unless they prove they’re a US citizen? I believe that is the very reason we’re having some problems regarding brown people and ICE these days. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/32 "2019-08-20T13:40:58Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > So I have an apparently not so crazy idea, since the 2nd amendment is suppose to be in place so we can fend off a tyrannical government, what if we gave firearms to the people who apparently need them the most, illegals. So bare with me here, the idea most right wing gun nuts and some 2nd amendment advocates have is that if the Government came into our community, started mass rounding people up, and throwing them in cages, we would stand up and defend ourselves. This is an idea that I’ve heard from virtually everyone who’s pro gun or pro 2nd amendment. Now considering this, shouldn’t we be arming the illegals so they can protect themselves from the feds coming and snatching them up? > So let’s say a saunctuary city or state decides to arm every illegal immigrant. We give them AR15s, body armor, and thousands of mags. How would the right respond to this? I imagine you’d have a bunch of right wingers crying about taking their guns, because it’s a danger to law enforcement. Maybe I’m wrong, and most right wingers will love this and then fox news will air segments praising them for being armed to defend themselves against a tyrannical government. You were a damn decent president but man , you really shoulda stopped while you were ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/33 "2019-08-20T13:46:09Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > If you told a right winger 4 years ago that the federal government was going to raid your community and mass detain your community members, Joe Blow with his AR15 and NRA bumper sticker would likely stand up and say fuck that. So using that fear of government, I’m bringing up a real world example of that actually happening, it’s just happening against illegals and brown people (a bit off topic but a lot of US citizens get wrapped up into this as well, being detained for days). The flaw in your reasoning is that may of the “Joe Blow” rightwing nutjobs don’t view undocumented aliens as “part of the community”. They call them, among other things, “invaders”. So… from the viewpoint of the RWNJ that whole bit about “raiding the community” hasn’t happened. Even if you and I would assert it has. Because the RWNJ doesn’t view non-citizens as “part of the community”. Hell, it’s getting to the point they don’t consider some people who are citizens as “part of the community”. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/34 "2019-08-20T13:49:58Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > … Hell, it’s getting to the point they don’t consider some people who are citizens as “part of the community”. They are certainly not alone in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/35 "2019-08-20T13:51:23Z")
A little more tolerance on all sides would help considerably. In some cases, a LOT more tolerance. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/36 "2019-08-20T13:52:06Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > A little more tolerance on all sides would help considerably. In some cases, a LOT more tolerance. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/37 "2019-08-20T14:08:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m not **octopus** , but I’ll answer anyways: the part where their “raids” are an enforcement action against people who violated our laws. That is to say: enforcing immigration laws is precisely _within_ “thei rfucking boundaries”. Serious question, what if you, or your spouse, or your kid worked at one of those places and got rounded up, riot cuffed and put in a detention center for a few days until it was your turn to get processed, at which point they (hopefully) believe that you’re a US Citizen and release you? These raids weren’t “we think an undocumented immigrant lives in this apartment, let’s go have a chat with them and sort it out”, they were “Many of the people at this business are illegal aliens so we’re going to take ALL of them to a detention center and sort it out over the next few days”. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/38 "2019-08-20T14:15:29Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Serious question, what if you, or your spouse, or your kid worked at one of those places and got rounded up, riot cuffed and put in a detention center for a few days until it was your turn to get processed, at which point they (hopefully) believe that you’re a US Citizen and release you? … I’d be irritated as hell, but people get mistakenly arrested and then later released all the time in this country, not just on suspicion of being an illegal alien, but for all sorts of crimes. If I’m walking down the street one day and get nabbed by the police and hauled off to jail, and have to spend time and money explaining to them that I’m not the bank robber they were looking for just because my shirt was the same color, of course I’d be frustrated, but what’s the alternative? Not let the police arrest anyone until they’ve proven their identity and crime beyond a reasonable doubt? That comes with it’s own set of problems. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/39 "2019-08-20T14:23:29Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Not let the police arrest anyone until they’ve proven their identity and crime beyond a reasonable doubt? That comes with it’s own set of problems. Maybe not arresting someone until they have reasonable suspicion. In the example you gave, you matched the description of someone they were looking for. In the example I gave, you only worked at the same place. If the police arrested every employee at three local McDonalds because someone got mugged by a person wearing a McDonalds’s uniform, that might be different. I don’t know what’s required to prove citizenship, but I’m curious whether it would have been possible for the ICE agents to screen everyone right then and there. Would it have been possible for the workers that are US Citizens, to be processed and sent on their way without ever being detained. I know that won’t be a perfect solution either, but, at the very least, a lot of the people that shouldn’t have been caught up in the raid, wouldn’t have been. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911/40 "2019-08-20T14:24:19Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Let’s see dozens of federal agents get shot dead in the streets and see how fast fox news goes to turn against firearms and arming those in need of protection. The reaction from Fox News would \*\*never \*\*be, “Those illegal immigrants just mowed down 25 federal agents, that’s it, repeal Second Amendment ASAP.” It would be, “Find some way to preserve - indeed, enhance the Second Amendment - while \*\*\*denying \*\*\*it to folks like these illegal immigrants.” In the eyes of Fox News-ers, turning against firearms because of such an act would be as nonsensical as abolishing flying for everyone in the wake of 9/11. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-right-wingers-feel-about-arming-illegal-immigrants/838911.md?page=3)