# How would the church know Jesus returned? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 29, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912 "2003-11-29T14:46:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/41 "2003-11-30T17:59:43Z")
btw, C’tian Recon is but the most recent vocal manifestation of PostMillenialism. While CR thought & Quakerism are at odds, the concept of humanity being won over by the example of a peaceful sharing community of Christians is a consistent Quaker PostMil vision. Btw, there is yet another version, espoused by Amillenial Church of Christ Full Preterists who regard ALL the prophecies as being fulfilled in 70 AD & only manifest in the Afterlife- so that those who die enter into their Resurrected Nature immediately to enjoy Heaven or suffer the Lake of Fire, with no final earthly AntiChrist or Tribulation or Return of Jesus or Millenium to come. The optimistic view of this- “TransMillenialism” ™- also envisions humanity as being won over to the Gospel & thus resembles PostMillism, except that it is not concluded by the personal return of Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/42 "2003-11-30T18:03:19Z")
Poly- while I regard the interpretation of Christ’s Second Coming as a reincarnation to be heterodox at best, it doesn’t alarm me except that you actually have a name & face put to it?!?! at least your description rules out Benjamin Creme’s Lord Matreiya! _G_ ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/43 "2003-11-30T18:46:20Z")
That is truly stupid. When Jesus returns everyone will know it is Him. **Polycarp** I dunno where you came up in your imagination with this ridiculous scenario, but its not from God, its from Satan. Who your describing is the anti-christ. People aren’t going to suddenly notice a guy who was born of physical parents who is actually Jesus. Unless you think the bible is a load of garbage, you are coming up with a whack fanciful fantasy from satan. Do not forget, everyone who loves Jesus will be hated by the world (unbeleivers). if everyone on this board who isn’t a chrsitian thinks you are great, you are most definitely not preaching the gospel. Its a watered down one, as many have said before. Jesus, when He returns, will be Jesus, teh man who was born all those about 2,000 years ago, not some blonde dude. :rolleyes: talk about introducing deception into the “Word”.☹ ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/44 "2003-11-30T21:19:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Great Dave- the theocratic post-millists aren’t Quaker but tend to be Reformed- mainly of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church and the Reformed Episcopal Church. I’m thinking of Gary North, the late Rousas J. Rushdoony, James Jordan, Gary DeMar & their organizations. Whether or not it would be like the Handmaid’s Tale or like a Christian Galt’s Gulch in ATLAS SHRUGGED depends on one’s perspective, I guess _L_ It was a few years ago that I took eschatology, so I apologize for any mischaracterizations. But Rushdoony is the name that sticks out in my mind. Thanks for reminding me of it. ---
**Author:** ![Coin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Coin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/45 "2003-11-30T23:50:05Z")
Polycarp: Don’t be a tease. You’re clearly not afraid of having people think you’re a loony (or you wouldn’t have said that you had a name and face for Yeshua’s current incarnation), so why not spit it out? Who is he? vanilla: Was that really necessary, or forum-appropriate? You must be aware that accusing Polycarp of not being a good Christian is an insult, whether you mean it as such or not. Not to play junior mod, but telling people their beliefs are “stupid” is probably better saved for the pit. (Incidentally, not every atheist on the board is necessary impressed by Polycarp, but that’s a different thread entirely.) Also, since this is Great Debates, some citations re: the universal acknowledgement of Jesus and universal revilement of Christians by the faithless would be appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/46 "2003-12-01T00:36:03Z")
Am I the only one that thinks **poly** is whooshing some folks here? - Surely this detailed description of a person must be someone actually known to (and dearly loved by) **Poly** and he is intending the statement as an oblique compliment to his friend, eh? ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/47 "2003-12-01T00:47:51Z")
I didn’t see any smilies. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/48 "2003-12-01T01:24:48Z")
Well, we’ll just have to wait and see, I suppose; I find it hard to read his last paragraph any other way than I described, smilies or no. ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/49 "2003-12-01T02:18:16Z")
Does it really matter _how_ he returns? I don’t think the physical aspects mattered then or now. We were supposed to understand the meaning behind why Jesus was necessary in the first place. God is not a Christian.😉 I don’t have a clue how it’s going to happen, but I doubt he’ll be visiting very many churches. ---
**Author:** ![ZOmegaZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ebca7d/32.png) [@ZOmegaZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZOmegaZ)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/50 "2003-12-01T04:29:28Z")
_Then, there are us Reformed types who are a-millenialists. As in the Millenium is just a plot device that doesn’t work, and anyone who tries to make sense of Revelation has too much time on their hands. We need to live as people connected to the rest of society, but not be ruled by it. We need to engage it as Christians in order to redeem it. But Christ return isn’t being held up by our failure to do so. It will happen when it will happen._ There’s actually yet another type that’s rather similar to this: those of us who don’t give a damn. Christ will return when he wants to return, and I rather trust him to know when the best time to do it is. I refuse to hold an opinion on the details, because it doesn’t make a lick of difference. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FunGuy\_from\_Yuggoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e95f7d/32.png) [@FunGuy\_from\_Yuggoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FunGuy_from_Yuggoth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/51 "2003-12-01T17:54:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*He comes visibly to unbelievers, and opens the biggest can of whoop ass anyone has ever seen on them (and good they deserve it, the Bible says-some of them have killed Christians) > \*\* Do the unbelievers who haven’t killed Christians deserve it, too? How about the Christians who have killed Christians? I guess they get a free “Get Away with Murder” card? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/52 "2003-12-01T18:25:44Z")
I don’t have any idea what **Poly** is talking about regarding the fair-haired stranger, but I do agree with him strongly on one point: however Jesus returns, it will be completely different than what we expect. And afterwards, looking back at it, we will probably say “Aha! How could we not have seen that it would bee that way?” Congratulations to the OP for starting the most appropriate thread on the board for the beginning of Advent! ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/53 "2003-12-02T04:25:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robcaro \* > \*\*“And every eye shall see him.” \*\* Great. It’s the Zoom-Zoom kid. Kill me now. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/54 "2003-12-03T08:34:58Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t have any idea what Poly is talking about regarding the fair-haired stranger, but I do agree with him strongly on one point: however Jesus returns, it will be completely different than what we expect. Ah, but that’s just what we DO expect! The only thing nobody suspects is the Spanish Inquisition. ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/55 "2003-12-03T11:24:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\*Ah, but that’s just what we DO expect! The only thing nobody suspects is the Spanish Inquisition. \*\* Dude, everyone expects the Spanish Inquisition these days. My friends see those wily Spanish Inquisitors jumping out of every closet and pick-up truck. No, in these trying times, no one expects the Danish Preposition! to ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/56 "2003-12-03T11:44:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*all of teh 50 or more books I have read, and checking the Bible tells me Jesus will come whenever, no warning, take the christians in the rapture. > Then 7 tears later, He comes visibly to unbelievers, and opens the biggest can of whoop ass anyone has ever seen on them (and good they deserve it, the Bible says-some of them have killed Christians) > Then the earth is cleaned up and peace regins for 1,000 years. > (then a temporary uprsiing then time stops) \*\* Hmmm, well most Xians I know don’t buy the whole “rapture” thing, too close to those poorly-written pop novels for serious theology, by their reckoning. Anyways, just a quick question, does the ass-whooping Jesus give people a decision about what side they’re on when he shows up? I’d figure if all the Xians went “poof”, he’d be w/o followers otherwise. Also, wouldn’t that 1000 years on Earth be _better_ than heaven? After all, life on earth is pretty 🆒 now, and people are kinda built to enjoy the whole process of living, and a perfection of that seems like alot more fun that spending eternity endlessly walking around a throne chanting “holy, holy, holy”. I’d kind of feel screwed if I was born at the end of that and missed the peace-on-earth period. And what does god do then, since time “stops”? Build a new world, maybe try for centaurs this time instead of humans? Or just pack it in and say “ok, all the souls presently existing, that’s all there’ll be forever.” The whole notion of “stopping” all time seems as awkward and incomprehensible as the notion of “beginning” time. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/57 "2003-12-03T14:24:21Z")
Cartooniverse said, "That was in fact exactly my point. The “joke” is that Jesus would return, and as a Mormon. It’s not very subtle, it’s insulting to any person who has a shred of respect for the religious beliefs of another. The person I quoted seems to find it hilarious that it’s “bad news” that Jesus would appear in the epicenter of Latter-Day Saints’ the world over. I hope that clarifies, and answers your question regarding my post." First, you obviously didn’t get the joke. It was PRO LDS, not ANTI. Second, I don’t have any respect for your religion. Only for your right to believe and express that belief using private funding. Third, take a pill, dude. Lighten up and try to figure out where you left your sense of humor, put it back in your pocket, and never…NEVER leave it laying around like that again. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/58 "2003-12-03T14:33:37Z")
In response to a question about “this generation will not pass” a Methodist pastor once told me that perhaps Pentecost was the Second Coming. With the Trinity supposed to be the same God, then technically the Holy Spirit is Jesus so I can see the point. The Revelation of St. John was a political diatribe against Rome, not a prophesy. Those who believe it is a roadmap of the future are bonkers. Or maybe John was when he wrote the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/59 "2003-12-03T14:34:03Z")
I would like to know something else about Polycarp’s candidate for the 2nd Coming- will his teachings scandalize moderate & liberal Christians just as much as Evangelicals? After all, Jesus irritated members of EVERY Jewish religious party- Sadduccee, Pharisee (which he most resembled theologically, especially tho not identically- the Hillel School), Zealot, Essene. A returned Jesus who annoys only Evangelicals would be quite theologically one-sided. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2003, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912/60 "2003-12-03T14:39:51Z")
EVERYTHING in the christian belief is a secret. Why would Poly break stride by SHARING any of this information with us. Remember, it’s not ours to know. We only get vague intrepretation of a book that may or may not have been written as a result of divine inspiration. He’ll never spill. It goes against code. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-church-know-jesus-returned/215912.md?page=4)