# How would the USMC do it today? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 2, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-usmc-do-it-today/680375 "2014-02-02T21:00:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-usmc-do-it-today/680375/41 "2014-02-03T18:40:00Z")
> [@Boogly](#): > > As a USMC grunt who strides the earth and smites all before me all I can say is; airpower and artillery = holy fuck! > If we had to take an island I think it would be; > Isolated, no reinforcements and no resupply > Given the Moses treatment; 40 days and nights of steel rain > Grunts would land and CAS (Close Air Support) would be frothing at the mouth for targets. > > Much would depend on how quick an island would need to be taken. But USMC CAS and Artillery…holy fuck I love them almost as much as I love Corpsmen. Straight from the horses’ mouth, can’t ask for fairer than that! If an enemy had time to dig in like the Japanese did on Tarawa, is there any fortified bunker that ordnance could not destroy and necessitate an old-fashioned storming? I’m guessing not, but that’s what they thought in '45 only for the machines guns to open up on them. > [@Lumpy](#): > > Today the Marines would be going in with excellent satellite and aerial recon. Thermobaric (fuel-air) bombs would make life miserable (and short) for defenders counting on caves and tunnels to protect them. Helicopters and aerial gunships would provide close-support, and helicopters could drop troops inland. Provided the Marines had the sea and air superiority to get to this stage, they would grant the defenders’ wish to die gloriously. Those thermobaric bombs are insane, I can only imagine how useful the Marines back then would found them. Would have made the job safer and quicker for them, at least, rather than having to rely on flamethrowers to flush the defenders out like at [Iwo Jima](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_3QeW9hgpE) (NSF the squeamish); “Where we can’t dig 'em out, we burn 'em out”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-usmc-do-it-today/680375/42 "2014-02-03T18:49:36Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > While hindsight is 20/20, if MacArthur hadn’t allowed the Philippines to fall to Japan, the “island hopping” strategy wouldn’t have been possible or even necessary as this would have prevented the Japanese from extending their reach much further south than Indochina. I am no fan of “Dug-out Doug” but pray tell, how was he supposed to stop the entire might of the IJN & IJA? ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-usmc-do-it-today/680375/43 "2014-02-03T18:49:59Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > While hindsight is 20/20, if MacArthur hadn’t allowed the Philippines to fall to Japan, the “island hopping” strategy wouldn’t have been possible or even necessary as this would have prevented the Japanese from extending their reach much further south than Indochina. Allowed? Yeah, that MacArthur had a reputation for being a wuss for letting the Philippines fall. :rolleyes: FYI, he was ordered to leave the Philippines by the Commander in Chief (the President) and actually received the Medal of Honor for pretty much just acting bravely and boldly in his retreat (it was a propaganda award and he knew it). ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-usmc-do-it-today/680375/44 "2014-02-03T18:56:03Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > USMC prepares to assault the NORK held island. Two carrier groups in support 1000 km off. They promptly get blown up by NORK nukes. I doubt a North Korean ballistic missile could even hit a island/atoll the size of Tarawa with a nuclear payload, much less a carrier battle group on the move. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-usmc-do-it-today/680375/45 "2014-02-03T18:57:36Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Thank you. I was going to point out some facts. Not GD territory but facts are important here. > > “The total dead or missing were 41,592 for all U.S. Army ground troops in the Pacific and southeast Asia, with another 145,706 wounded. The Marine Corps and attached Navy corpsmen suffered total casualties of 23,160 killed or missing and 67,199 wounded” > > [The Pacific War Online Encyclopedia: Casualties](http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/C/a/Casualties.htm) > > Because of the type of battles and the high casualty rates in a short period if time in those battles, the Marines get the bulk of the credit. But there were more Army troops and more Army casualties in the pacific. And, FWIW, there were more aircrew killed in the 8th Air Force’s strategic bombing offensive than the USMC and Navy combined during WWII. ---
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-usmc-do-it-today/680375/46 "2014-02-03T19:42:02Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I doubt a North Korean ballistic missile could even hit a island/atoll the size of Tarawa with a nuclear payload, much less a carrier battle group on the move. I would be shocked if NK had the technology to mount a nuke on a missile. Maybe, by the time they are ready to take Tarawa… Rob ---
**Author:** ![Boogly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Boogly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boogly)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-usmc-do-it-today/680375/47 "2014-02-03T20:40:07Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Thank you. I was going to point out some facts. Not GD territory but facts are important here. > > “The total dead or missing were 41,592 for all U.S. Army ground troops in the Pacific and southeast Asia, with another 145,706 wounded. The Marine Corps and attached Navy corpsmen suffered total casualties of 23,160 killed or missing and 67,199 wounded” > > [The Pacific War Online Encyclopedia: Casualties](http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/C/a/Casualties.htm) > > Because of the type of battles and the high casualty rates in a short period if time in those battles, the Marines get the bulk of the credit. But there were more Army troops and more Army casualties in the pacific. The Army did a lot of good shit in the Pacific. However looking at just the casualty numbers does not tell the entire story. The Army had 22 Divisions in the Pacific and the Marines had 6 Divisions. The USMC suffered almost half the casualties with a much smaller force. Again I’m not talking shit about the Army. They saddled up just like the Marines did. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-usmc-do-it-today/680375/48 "2014-02-03T20:50:23Z")
> [@bump](#): > > And, FWIW, there were more aircrew killed in the 8th Air Force’s strategic bombing offensive than the USMC and Navy combined during WWII. The 8th Airforce did lose an astonishing 26K. Overall, the US Military lost 416K. The Navy & USMC lost about 52K, not counting Coast Guard & Merchant Marine. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-usmc-do-it-today/680375/49 "2014-02-03T21:47:10Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > While hindsight is 20/20, if MacArthur hadn’t allowed the Philippines to fall to Japan, the “island hopping” strategy wouldn’t have been possible or even necessary as this would have prevented the Japanese from extending their reach much further south than Indochina. > [@DrDeth](#): > > I am no fan of “Dug-out Doug” but pray tell, how was he supposed to stop the entire might of the IJN & IJA? > [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Allowed? Yeah, that MacArthur had a reputation for being a wuss for letting the Philippines fall. :rolleyes: FYI, he was ordered to leave the Philippines by the Commander in Chief (the President) and actually received the Medal of Honor for pretty much just acting bravely and boldly in his retreat (it was a propaganda award and he knew it). It wasn’t a matter of him being a wuss. And it wasn’t an issue of what he could have done by the time he was ordered to leave. MacArthur’s mistakes were made in earlier. He should have deployed his forces in a more defensive arrangement. Instead he left them all bunched up where they were easy for the Japanese to attack. The worst part is MacArthur grouped his forces together like this so they would be ready to launch an attack against the Japanese - and then he lost his nerve at the critical moment and didn’t order the attack. As it was, the American and Filipino forces were able to offer an hard albeit impromptu defense and held out for five months. If they had planned ahead and prepared for a defensive campaign, they probably could have held out for over a year. In the long run, the Philippines were going to fall. They were too far away from America and too close to Japan to hold out indefinitely. But it would have made a huge difference to the course of the war if Japan had been forced to fight a major campaign in the opening months of the war to conquer the Philippines. Most of the Pacific war was fought to retake places Japan captured in the first six months of the war - if Japan had been held back in those six months, the war might have ended a year or two earlier. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-usmc-do-it-today/680375/50 "2014-02-03T22:07:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The 8th Airforce did lose an astonishing 26K. Overall, the US Military lost 416K. The Navy & USMC lost about 52K, not counting Coast Guard & Merchant Marine. I think I was thinking Navy was included, but I must have confused the numbers. At any rate, the 8th AF’s 26k does beat the USMC’s 24k, which is something that the USMC’s PR machine doesn’t mention at all. By the propaganda, you’d think the USMC suffered 3x the casualties of all other services, which isn’t the case at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-usmc-do-it-today/680375.md?page=2)