# How would the world be different today if horses never existed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 6, 2002, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595 "2002-08-06T12:52:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/1 "2002-08-06T12:52:03Z")
Besides being denied “Mr. Ed”, in what ways would the world be different today if horses never existed? Are there any “What If?” type books that pose the question? It’s always hard to speculate on these things because we don’t know what would have happenened prior to any major event because of the lack of horses but let’s take history at face value. This will probably end up in GD or IMHO but I thought it should start here. What wars were probably decided by the domination of cavalry forces over infantry forces? What chain of technological advances depended, at least at first, on the existence of horses? What about agriculture and exploration? I know that they become impossibly intertwined to mete out but take a stab. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/2 "2002-08-06T13:04:17Z")
Time for another reference to the ever popular and SDMB book-club favourite: Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies by Jared Diamond. It discusses the importance the horse had in human societies development and suggests it’s one of the more important reasons why Europe colonised the Americas rather than vice-versa. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/3 "2002-08-06T13:32:03Z")
Without horses, we would’ve relied on other draft animals: Cows (used in the Middle East for a long time), water buffalo, oxen. Elephants. Would a cavalry exist at all? I don’t know. Some early settler in Massachusetts, lacking a horse, is said to have ridden a cow. The idea of war-oxen strikes us as odd, but I’ll bet we would’ve used them for wagons and (later) cannon. I doubt if you’d charge on them, but, given the limitations and human ingenuity, who knows what might not have been achieved with enough breeding? Horses were supposed to have been more efficient at ploughing, after the invention of the horse collar. But oxen were used before horses, so I don’t there’d be any change in agriculture. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/4 "2002-08-06T14:32:06Z")
The Canadian Moose Regiments would be feared throughout the world. But the Charge of the Light Brigade sure would have looked funny on those kangaroos… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/5 "2002-08-06T14:40:23Z")
“Into the Valley of Death, hopped the five hundred.” ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/6 "2002-08-06T15:13:43Z")
“The jog of Paul Revere.” ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/7 "2002-08-06T15:34:57Z")
We probably wouldn’t have hunted the buffalo to death. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/8 "2002-08-06T15:43:48Z")
The “Run for the Roses” with those giraffes would give “winning by a neck” a whole new significance. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/9 "2002-08-06T15:47:13Z")
Instead of little girls all over playing with “My Little Pony,” they would have had to settle for “My Little Weasel.” ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/10 "2002-08-06T16:13:03Z")
My car would be 1,000,000 Turtle Power instead of 150 Horse Power. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/11 "2002-08-06T16:16:30Z")
Ok, this thread is just wrong, now. 😃 Seriously, you ask a question so far-reaching no good answer can be given. ---
**Author:** ![Encinitas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Encinitas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Encinitas)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/12 "2002-08-06T16:50:20Z")
Giddyup! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/13 "2002-08-06T17:31:47Z")
“Hi-yo Bessy! Away!” Nah…I just don’t see that working… ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/14 "2002-08-06T17:54:31Z")
I think we’re flogging a dead mongoose here… ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/15 "2002-08-06T18:30:13Z")
Two words: war camels. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/16 "2002-08-06T19:13:04Z")
Well, there are a few alternatives if horses hadn’t invented themselves. Elk or caribou could have been bred up into horse like creatures or at least used for wagons(domestic reindeer and wild caribou are apparently the same species). > [@](#): > > It is thought that the first domestication of reindeer was accomplished about 5,000 years ago by the people of the Altai Mountain region of the Russian/Mongolian border, possibly as an aid to hunting wild animals. - from: [“Explore North”](http://www.explorenorth.com/library/weekly/aa080798.htm) Actually in a [“Description of the Reindeer of Scandinavia and Northern Russia”](http://www.itv.se/boreale/bovts.htm) it says that remains of 30,000 year old caribou corrals have been found in northern Canada (though that wouldn’t help Europe so much). Maybe camel-use would have spread quicker and farther north. “The desert inhabitants of the UAE have used camels for over 4,000 years. Camel bones found at an archaeological site at Umm al-Nar, near Abu Dhabi, and dated to around 2,500 - 2,200 BC, may represent the earliest evidence anywhere in the world for domestication of the camel. The UAE’s climate became more arid around this time, and the camel has provided a means of transport across the desert ever since” from: [United Arab Emirates Ministry of Information and Culture](http://www.uaeinteract.com/history/e_walk/con_2/con2_18.asp) Personally I like the idea of everyone tooling around with their own dogsled. ps- I admit it, Google searching is easier than painting the basement like I _should_ be doing. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/17 "2002-08-06T19:25:52Z")
The calvary, whether used directly in a charge or indirectly as a means to get dismounted infantry somewhere fast, turned warfare into a study of lightning strikes. Hitting hard wasn’t as important as hitting fast. Elephants and oxen could be used in war, but that would make warfare evolve more towards a study in overwhelming power. In short, for want of a horse, we’d all be radioactive dust by now. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/18 "2002-08-06T20:29:06Z")
I should think camels might be the animal used for rapid assault, if they could manage more northern climates or be bred to. They can’t wheel like horses, and don’t gallop very easily, but they are still pretty fast. The tactics would differ a great deal (probably more “means to get dismounted infantry somehere fast”, rather than charges), but the idea of a camel-based “lightning strike” force doesn’t sound out of the question to me. At the very least, they might be the basis of a faster, more mobile “light armour” division. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/19 "2002-08-06T20:55:56Z")
I had heard that camels’ feet didn’t do well on rocky ground, but [this](http://www.militarymuseum.org/Camel.html) site claims the US Camel Corps declined more due to politics than fatuity. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595/20 "2002-08-06T20:57:11Z")
“I should think camels might be the animal used for rapid assault, if they could manage more northern climates or be bred to.” I think so, after all llamas are camel related and live in the Andes. "The llama is native to the high puna of the South American Andes. Peru and Bolivia form the heart of this region with portions of Argentina, Chile, Colombia, and Ecuador forming the periphery. The llama is one of the four species known as New World camelids which inhabit the region. " from: [History of the Llama-BUCKHORN LLAMA CO., INC](http://www.llamapack.com/histry.HTM) I’m sure a fast-strike European camel could have been developed. It might be quicker to have bred war-caribou but I’m no genetisist. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-the-world-be-different-today-if-horses-never-existed/122595.md?page=2)