# How would Trump's muslim ban be implemented? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 11, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550 "2016-05-11T14:54:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/61 "2016-05-12T06:15:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The First Amendment is not phrased in terms of the rights of people, or of citizens, to freedom of religion. It’s phrased in terms of the powers of the government, and the US Constitution is certainly binding on the US government. For Congress to pass a law excluding Muslims would be for it to do something it is expressly prohibited from doing. True, but does Congress need to pass a law? Heck, if it’s a law, I’d not be concerned about what Trump said at all. But I was under the impression there was a lot of latitude here by the executive branch. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/62 "2016-05-12T08:11:35Z")
The only legal and workable way to implement such a ban would be to ban visas to certain countries judged to be hotbeds of extremism. But there’d be no way to ban European Muslims. Such a ban would have barred pretty much all of the culprits who have ever committed major terrorist attacks on the US if it had been longstanding US policy. Tim McVeigh excepted. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/63 "2016-05-12T08:15:37Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Until some Americans start whining when their Christian relatives can’t visit from Malaysia or Pakistan or wherever. Easy to get around that. Relatives of American citizens could get waivers. Plus I doubt Trump would be looking at a total Muslim ban, just a ban from countries that are hotbeds of extremism. Malaysia hasn’t been connected to international terrorism. Pakistan, of course, has. ---
**Author:** ![GoodOmens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@GoodOmens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoodOmens)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/64 "2016-05-12T11:57:01Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > Which negates the need for the ban. Unless we’re just doing it to be assholes. And we have a winner. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/65 "2016-05-12T11:59:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Easy to get around that. Relatives of American citizens could get waivers. Even Muslim citizens? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/66 "2016-05-12T12:59:29Z")
Sure. I did a quick look at terrorist attacks by Muslims in the US, and all of them came from majority Muslim countries and they all came over on work or student visas, or as asylum cases, rather than having family members here. Of course, the sample size is small, but it does appear that Muslims who are well established here as good citizens don’t bring over violent relatives ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/67 "2016-05-12T13:29:50Z")
Hey, let’s keep in mind that this measure will on be in place until “we figure out what’s going on”. That shouldn’t take long… ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/68 "2016-05-12T13:35:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Sure. I did a quick look at terrorist attacks by Muslims in the US, and all of them came from majority Muslim countries and they all came over on work or student visas, or as asylum cases, rather than having family members here. Of course, the sample size is small, but it does appear that Muslims who are well established here as good citizens don’t bring over violent relatives Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/69 "2016-05-12T13:35:37Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > Mr. Trump would have no power over non-citizens outside the US, even if he was elected. He isn’t running for president of Malaysia or any of the other countries mentioned in this thread. Yet a ban on their entering the US is not unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/70 "2016-05-12T15:35:36Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Cite? THe Tsarnaevs came over as asylum cases. The 9/11 hijackers were all work and student visas. The WTC bombers were the same, except for one of them, who was born in the US but lived most of his live in Iraq. We can’t outright ban American citizens from returning home, but we can require those who have spent their lives in the Muslim world to submit to a thorough background check. Yasin was trained in bombmaking and had scars from the experience. Under the policy I suggested, that would probably be detected. There is another one, Zacarias Massoui(I’m sure the spelling is wrong), who was born in France, but if we just do some cursory background checks on all immigrants, period, we’d have found out that he’d attended an extremist mosque in Britain and denied him a visa. If countries can threaten to deny Ann Coulter visas because of the things she says, we can certainly deny religious fanatics from extremists mosques. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/71 "2016-05-12T15:41:06Z")
As with Trump’s immigration proposals, practicality isn’t actually as much of an issue as critics make out. The real issue is morality. Arguing about practicality distracts from the central issue of what kind of country we want to be. I’m not endorsing the liberal view either that we should take in as many Syrian refugees as possible, but I do think we should be better about background checks. It’s always amazing after the fact how most of these terrorists had an extremely suspicious travel itinerary. Sorry, but if someone applies for asylum here and they just happen to have spent a lot of time where there are terrorist training camps, they need to knock on a different door. Germany’s open for those types I hear. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/72 "2016-05-12T15:42:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > THe Tsarnaevs came over as asylum cases. The 9/11 hijackers were all work and student visas. The WTC bombers were the same, except for one of them, who was born in the US but lived most of his live in Iraq. We can’t outright ban American citizens from returning home, but we can require those who have spent their lives in the Muslim world to submit to a thorough background check. Yasin was trained in bombmaking and had scars from the experience. Under the policy I suggested, that would probably be detected. The Tsarnev brothers were 11 and 15. 9 years before the attack. The parents were not radicals. [13 Terror Attacks Linked to Radical Islam That Struck America Since 9/11](http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/terror-attacks-radical-islam/2015/12/07/id/704847/) I went through the list. Every single one was either a natural born citizen of the U.S. or came here at an early age. Show me a list of attacks since 9/11 that were committed by recent immigrants who are of adult ( or near adult, say 15 and up) age. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/73 "2016-05-12T15:48:40Z")
Oops.11 years before the bombings. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/74 "2016-05-12T18:28:03Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > There’s also a concept in Islam called [taqiya](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiya), which allows Muslims to lie about their religion if they believe that they will be persecuted because of it. No, this is the\*\* Shia\*\* view. The Sunni view is narrow and is not much different than the **Jewish** view on this same concept of preservation of life as acceptable- in the Sunnah it is the same idea as allowing one to eat porc instead of starving. You westerners talk more about this concept than is ever actually ever discussed by actual live Muslims… (of course the hateful innovations of the Takfiri, I am sure they would find ways to rationalize adopting the shia concept like they adopted suicice bombings - so it indeed would be pointless) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/75 "2016-05-12T21:30:17Z")
If the US passed a law that said that US famine relief aid could only go to Christians that would be struck down. The fact that the law applies to people overseas is irrelevant. The law was passed _by Americans officials in America_. So the courts have jurisdiction over that. Ditto any Trump anti-Muslim rule. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/76 "2016-05-12T23:40:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The Tsarnev brothers were 11 and 15. 9 years before the attack. The parents were not radicals. > > [13 Terror Attacks Linked to Radical Islam That Struck America Since 9/11](http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/terror-attacks-radical-islam/2015/12/07/id/704847/) > I went through the list. Every single one was either a natural born citizen of the U.S. or came here at an early age. > > Show me a list of attacks since 9/11 that were committed by recent immigrants who are of adult ( or near adult, say 15 and up) age. And even more attacks were commited by white conservative Christians. Killing someone because you think they are muslim, bombing an abortion clinic or shooting people at church are all examples of terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/77 "2016-05-13T00:22:41Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The Tsarnev brothers were 11 and 15. 9 years before the attack. The parents were not radicals. > > [13 Terror Attacks Linked to Radical Islam That Struck America Since 9/11](http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/terror-attacks-radical-islam/2015/12/07/id/704847/) > I went through the list. Every single one was either a natural born citizen of the U.S. or came here at an early age. > > Show me a list of attacks since 9/11 that were committed by recent immigrants who are of adult ( or near adult, say 15 and up) age. But they did come from a majority Muslim country that is connected to radicalism(in a huge way), and did not come over becuase they had family here, so they wouldn’t have been allowed here under Trump’s ban. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/78 "2016-05-13T00:45:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But they did come from a majority Muslim country that is connected to radicalism(in a huge way), and did not come over becuase they had family here, so they wouldn’t have been allowed here under Trump’s ban. So we’ve had 100s of 1000s of refugees and two become radicalized after 11 years. What do you plan to do about all the natural born U.S. citizens who are Muslim? Throw 'em out? Confined to camps in the desert? Jail? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/79 "2016-05-13T00:52:33Z")
None of those have been able to mount attacks that your average PCP-induced thug couldn’t pull off. I’m not concerned about those, I’m concerned about mass casualty events by trained operatives. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550/80 "2016-05-13T00:59:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > None of those have been able to mount attacks that your average PCP-induced thug couldn’t pull off. I’m not concerned about those, I’m concerned about mass casualty events by trained operatives. Name some that have occurred in this country. And put those goalposts back where you found 'em. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-trumps-muslim-ban-be-implemented/754550.md?page=5)