# How would we fight in space? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 29, 2002, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-fight-in-space/111277 "2002-05-29T01:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dragline](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/edb3f5/32.png) [@Dragline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragline)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-fight-in-space/111277/21 "2002-05-29T17:56:04Z")
Here’s one the Chicoms can use, now that they’re talking about a moon shot: Launch a large vehicle toward the moon with the announced purpose of peaceful research. As it rounds the far side of the moon, ostensibly to start its orbit, there is a ‘malfunction’ and it is put on a return trajectory to earth. Because the track is in a figure 8 shape, as it approaches the earth, it is now traveling in the **opposite** direction as everything else in orbit. One more ‘malfunction’ and the damn thing blows up in a retrograde orbit, spraying pieces into whatever is the most damaging altitude. The resulting collisions just keep adding to the destruction, and nobody has space assets anymore. Good-bye GPS, satellite guided munitions, etc., and we can’t really say they meant to do it. Comforting, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Dragline](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/edb3f5/32.png) [@Dragline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragline)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-fight-in-space/111277/22 "2002-05-29T18:01:51Z")
Here’s one the Chicoms can use, now that they’re talking about a moon shot: Launch a large vehicle toward the moon with the announced purpose of peaceful research. As it rounds the far side of the moon, ostensibly to start its orbit, there is a ‘malfunction’ and it is put on a return trajectory to earth. Because the track is in a figure 8 shape, as it approaches the earth, it is now traveling in the **opposite** direction as everything else in orbit. One more ‘malfunction’ and the damn thing blows up in a retrograde orbit, spraying pieces into whatever is the most damaging altitude. The resulting collisions just keep adding to the destruction, and nobody has space assets anymore. Good-bye GPS, satellite guided munitions, etc., and we can’t really say they meant to do it. Comforting, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Dragline](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/edb3f5/32.png) [@Dragline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragline)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-fight-in-space/111277/23 "2002-05-29T18:15:06Z")
sorry about the double hit - space debris ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-fight-in-space/111277/24 "2002-05-29T18:25:55Z")
You know, space combat sounds a lot like submarine warfare. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-fight-in-space/111277/25 "2002-05-29T20:44:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Because the track is in a figure 8 shape, as it approaches the earth, it is now traveling in the **opposite** direction as everything else in orbit. How does a figure 8 put you into a retrograde orbit? And even if they tried this, they couldn’t make it look like an accident: For something coming back from the Moon, the Earth is a pretty small target, and you have to be trying to hit it. Add to that the fact that even if they did pull it off, the country which would be hurt most by it, by a long shot, is China. Their communications infrastructure is far more dependent on satellites than ours. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-fight-in-space/111277/26 "2002-05-29T23:10:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alessan \* > \*\*You know, space combat sounds a lot like submarine warfare. \*\* Very apt, and you’re not the first to say it. Much of the mindset would carry over, although not necessarilly the tactics. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-fight-in-space/111277/27 "2002-05-30T00:22:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dragline \* > One more ‘malfunction’ and the damn thing blows up in a retrograde orbit, spraying pieces into whatever is the most damaging altitude. The resulting collisions just keep adding to the destruction, and nobody has space assets anymore. Good-bye GPS, satellite guided munitions, etc., and we can’t really say they meant to do it. > > Comforting, eh? \*\* Once again, forgetting how BIG space is. Imagine trying to cover the ocean with enough debris so that any ship crossing it would have to touch at least one peice (at 8 miles per second). Now multiply that times the volume of space in orbit around the Earth. There’s a lot of room up there. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-fight-in-space/111277/28 "2002-05-30T01:26:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JThunder \* > \*\* > Then there’s the wave-motion gun, but it takes a while to charge up. \*\* Yeah, but someone would need super-human strength to lift and fire it! 😉 Ranchoth (There’s always the TOZT-7…) ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-fight-in-space/111277/29 "2002-05-30T01:49:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > \*\*Once again, forgetting how BIG space is. Imagine trying to cover the ocean with enough debris so that any ship crossing it would have to touch at least one peice (at 8 miles per second). Now multiply that times the volume of space in orbit around the Earth. There’s a lot of room up there. \*\* Now imagine crossing that ocean every 90 minutes. Sooner or later, there _will_ be a collision. ---
**Author:** ![Cap\_n\_Crude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Cap\_n\_Crude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cap_n_Crude)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-fight-in-space/111277/30 "2002-05-30T02:01:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tranquilis \* > \*\*Now imagine crossing that ocean every 90 minutes. Sooner or later, there _will_ be a collision. \*\* Nope. To have that effect, the debris would have to achieve orbital insertion, which it won’t since it’s on a re-entry course. In the scenario you’ve described, you’ve forgotten to reckon with inertia. Almost all of the mass of the returning vehicle would keep going and burn up as it re-enters the atmosphere. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-fight-in-space/111277/31 "2002-05-30T05:46:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Almost all of the mass of the returning vehicle would keep going and burn up as it re-enters the atmosphere. Assuming no collisions are achieved with already orbiting craft, and assuming the original debris field is actually on an orbit intersecting the atmosphere, sure. Actually, on reflection, likely much of the debris will fall into an eliptical orbit, and will periodically sweep though a range of useful high-, mid-, and low-earth orbits before heading out to around the lunar orbit, to return again for another sweep next go 'round. Depending, of course, on the trajectory of the orginal craft when it detonates. Of course, an orbit that long will allow loads of time for the debris field to expand to the point where any resulting collisions will be a statistically insignificant addition to current collisions, and eventually, the moon will probably either soak-up most of the debris, or will distort the orbit of the debris to either eject it from earth orbit, or cause it to fall into the atmosphere. How long that will take, or even if it happens at all kinda depends on the parameters of the craft when it detonates. Any way you slice it, blowing-up a Lunar orbiting craft on it’s way home is a low-efficiency attack. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-fight-in-space/111277/32 "2002-05-30T07:46:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alessan \* > \*\*You know, space combat sounds a lot like submarine warfare. \*\* Even more so, if we ever reach the phase of common interplanetary travel. Attacks against supply ships will recreate the Battle of the Atlantic, in space. ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-fight-in-space/111277/33 "2002-05-30T10:07:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Journeyman \* > \*\* > You’re right, it would be fought by computers. Humans might make operational or tactical decisions, but the actual shooting and exploding would be in the hands of machines. \*\* You obviously haven’t seen “Buck Rogers in the 23rd century”. The humans were losing their space fights because they used computers and were too predictable. Good old Buck showed them them that they didn’t need them to fight and saved humanity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-fight-in-space/111277.md?page=1)