# How would we know if a person on this board is a paid troll? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 11, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280 "2016-10-11T20:29:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/1 "2016-10-11T20:29:57Z")
There was [THIS](https://stream.org/astroturf-outrage-machine-of-paid-trolls-floods-social-media-to-counteract-negative-news-about-hillary-clinton/) article that said the Clinton campaign paid people to post information about HRC on various boards like Facebook. I’m sure other candidates do it also. I’d like to ask, has any such troll ever been spotted on this board and just how would we recognize such a person fro say a regular supporter of that candidate? ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/2 "2016-10-11T20:49:38Z")
One thing about this message board – it has a history. A long history. Someone shows up tomorrow defending Hillary Clinton, we have no way of knowing for sure, but we can certainly be skeptical. I post about Hillary Clinton, and you can look at my entire history of posting about her (which I just happen to have researched for another reason this weekend) and see comments stretching back all the way to the 2008 election. The other thing is that on this board we’re less concerned about counting heads and building consensus than we are about finding the facts. It isn’t, “Wow, look at all of these people on the Dope who support Clinton,” it’s “Here is what the opposition is saying about her, and here are the facts that support or contradict their arguments.” So a troll whose goal is just to make it look like Hillary has a lot of support here doesn’t serve much purpose, and a troll who is posting factual cites is fighting ignorance and we aren’t that concerned about who is doing the posting. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/3 "2016-10-11T20:55:51Z")
Another point against being a shill is making substantive posts on topics other than their paid hobby horse. It isn’t proof one way or another, since political-only people do join sometimes, many of which may or may not be trolls but can’t all be shills, but I don’t think shills’ masters think it a good use of money to have them post a lot of off-topic posts to establish credibility. If I were a shill payer, I’d ask them to aim for 5%-20% off-topic posts, anything lower wouldn’t be credible whereas anything more would be a waste of money. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/4 "2016-10-11T20:56:21Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > There was [THIS](https://stream.org/astroturf-outrage-machine-of-paid-trolls-floods-social-media-to-counteract-negative-news-about-hillary-clinton/) article that said the Clinton campaign paid people to post information about HRC on various boards like Facebook. I’m sure other candidates do it also. > > I’d like to ask, has any such troll ever been spotted on this board and just how would we recognize such a person fro say a regular supporter of that candidate? The article writer lost me as soon as I cheked the first link, it looks like the writer does not know what a troll is, and the effort they point at was not secret at all. [http://correctrecord.org/barrier-breakers-2016-a-project-of-correct-the-record/](http://correctrecord.org/barrier-breakers-2016-a-project-of-correct-the-record/) > [@](#): > > Barrier Breakers 2016: A Project of Correct The Record > Task force will help Clinton supporters push back on online harassment and thank > superdelegates > > Anonymous online attacks, from both sides of the political spectrum, have sought to spread lies and misleading narratives about Secretary Hillary Clinton. Hillary’s supporters are more enthusiastic than Sen. Bernie Sanders’ supporters, yet oftentimes are discouraged from engaging online and are “often afraid to voice their thoughts” because of the fear of online harassment. Many of Hillary Clinton’s female supporters in particular have been subject to intense cyber-bullying and sexist attacks from swarms of anonymous attackers. > [@](#): > > The task force currently combats online political harassment, having already addressed more than 5,000 individuals who have personally attacked Secretary Clinton on Twitter. The task force will provide a presence and space online where Clinton supporters can organize and engage with one another and are able to obtain graphics, videos, gifs, and messaging to use in their own social spaces. Additionally, the Barrier Breakers 2016 task force hopes to embrace the creativity of Hillary Clinton’s supporters by sharing their efforts and content with other groups. On the other side there had been reports were real trolling and the desinformation origins have been hidden from view and it may come from Trump’s old pal Putin: [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html) > [@](#): > > The Agency > > From a nondescript office building in St. Petersburg, Russia, > an army of well-paid “trolls” has tried to wreak havoc all > around the Internet — and in real-life American communities. Back then it seemed that they only seeded FUD in an attempt at setting discord and demoralizing Americans. But then they found they could do a lot of that with Trump. > **[It looks like Russia hired internet trolls to pose as pro-Trump Americans](https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-internet-trolls-and-donald-trump-2016-7)** > > It's a brand of information warfare, known as "dezinformatsiya," that has been used by the Russians since at least the Cold War. > [@](#): > > “A very interesting thing happened,” Chen told Longform’s Max Linsky in a podcast in December. > > “I created this list of Russian trolls when I was researching. And I check on it once in a while, still. And a lot of them have turned into conservative accounts, like fake conservatives. I don’t know what’s going on, but they’re all tweeting about Donald Trump and stuff,” he said. > > … > > He continued (emphasis added): > > “It is designed, as retired KGB General Oleg Kalugin once defined it, ‘to drive wedges in the Western community alliances of all sorts, particularly NATO, to sow discord among allies, to weaken the United States in the eyes of the people in Europe, Asia, Africa, Latin America, and thus to prepare ground in case the war really occurs.’ The most common subcategory of active measures is dezinformatsiya, or disinformation: feverish, if believable lies cooked up by Moscow Centre and planted in friendly media outlets to make democratic nations look sinister.” ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/5 "2016-10-11T21:20:48Z")
We are stronger together! We can’t let a misogynist lead our country! Go to [HRC.com/rallies](http://HRC.com/rallies) to find out how you can help us win! (oops, blew my cover) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/6 "2016-10-11T21:29:00Z")
We seem to get a steady stream of new, very right-wing posters that don’t stick around all that long. In contrast to paid shills (from either party), my bet is that it’s one or two people who make serial accounts to troll. Or it’s a small group thing, getting luls in the snarkpit. I sometimes wonder whether the serial right-wing poster is the same person(s) who routinely post Jerry Springer-level sob stories in MPSIMS. (Note: I don’t think the serial sock puppet is reflective of conservative ideology. I can’t even tell if it’s Poe’s Law in effect. It’s just that it’s that persons schtick.) ---
**Author:** ![Junior\_Spaceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Junior\_Spaceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Junior_Spaceman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/7 "2016-10-11T21:30:43Z")
I assume none of the pro-Trump supporters are paid shills, because he doesn’t pay. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/8 "2016-10-11T21:34:29Z")
You mean I could get paid for sitting here and posting all day? Where do I sign up? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/9 "2016-10-11T21:35:21Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > There was [THIS](https://stream.org/astroturf-outrage-machine-of-paid-trolls-floods-social-media-to-counteract-negative-news-about-hillary-clinton/) article that said the Clinton campaign paid people to post information about HRC on various boards like Facebook. I’m sure other candidates do it also. > > I’d like to ask, has any such troll ever been spotted on this board and just how would we recognize such a person fro say a regular supporter of that candidate? [Here is the front page](https://stream.org/) of the “news” cite you have linked to. Got anything less rabidly pro-Trump as a source? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/10 "2016-10-11T21:38:08Z")
> [@Junior\_Spaceman](#): > > I assume none of the pro-Trump supporters are paid shills, because he doesn’t pay. Shhhhh. They’re not supposed to know that yet. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/11 "2016-10-11T21:39:35Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The article writer lost me as soon as I cheked the first link, it looks like the writer does not know what a troll is, and the effort they point at was not secret at all. > > [http://correctrecord.org/barrier-breakers-2016-a-project-of-correct-the-record/](http://correctrecord.org/barrier-breakers-2016-a-project-of-correct-the-record/) > > On the other side there had been reports were real trolling and the desinformation origins have been hidden from view and it may come from Trump’s old pal Putin: > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html) > Back then it seemed that they only seeded FUD in an attempt at setting discord and demoralizing Americans. But then they found they could do a lot of that with Trump. > > [Russian Internet Trolls Were Being Hired to Pose As Pro-Trump Americans - Business Insider](http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-internet-trolls-and-donald-trump-2016-7) I gotta say, **Urbanredneck** , you really got an interesting track record [with threads](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=802627) [like these](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=795814). It’s almost like one person, or a few people, can’t influence consensus enough to turn a forum to a new direction. It’s almost like individuals can counter attempts at spam and propaganda regardless of whether they come from paid shills. In fact, it typically goes too far the other direction: The forum ends up with a vector-sum consensus, the end result of all participants participating in threads and exchanging ideas, and newcomers get short shrift until they’ve been around a while. That’s where accusations of “hivemind” come from, and they’re not entirely false; OTOH, healthy fora don’t go completely closed, either. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/12 "2016-10-11T22:42:31Z")
Shill not troll. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/13 "2016-10-11T23:00:44Z")
Over the past year or so, it’s become incredibly common for Hillary supporters to be called “shills”- so much so, in fact, that calling people shills (or even hinting at it) on the Politics subreddit is grounds for immediate temp bans. I’ve been called a shill tons of times over there- which is frankly ridiculous, 'cause there’s no evidence at all that Correct The Record has ever paid anyone to \*secretly \*push the Hillary agenda. It’s just a way for Bernie supporters- and now Trump supporters- to shut down anyone who dares to argue with them. But even if there was, _so what_? What is it that makes an argument invalid if it comes from someone paid to present that argument? Let’s say I go online and say “Vote Hillary!” one week, and then the next week I get paid to go online and say “Vote Hillary!”. Why is my statement suddenly invalid? Plus, there’s the sheer logistics of it. CTR apparently only got six million bucks or so. How much of an online army is that supposed to pay for? It just doesn’t make any sense. Of course, I’m sure someone’s reading what I’ve posted right here and is thinking, “Yep, he’s a shill.” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/14 "2016-10-11T23:19:56Z")
Moved from Elections. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/15 "2016-10-11T23:35:23Z")
It’s funny, because whatever nonsense source that urbanredneck got that information from failed to mention that Facebook billionaire Palmer Luckey has been openly bankrolling online Trumpetteers for the last year. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/16 "2016-10-11T23:57:50Z")
Rewinding back to the OP: I’d say that the SDMB is a pretty small pond. Not one with great public influence or a large audience. As such we’d be way down the target list of places for an organized effort to shill/troll. There’s no point in shill/trolling someplace where the readership is small and mostly fixed. The goal of social media is to shout from the rooftops. For small players to speak with the same volume as the NYTimes. Speaking here, whether in ways that meet our community standards or not, is definitely mumbling in the bathroom with the water running, not shouting from the rooftops. Somebody getting 30,000 likes or retweets is effective. Somebody here getting 500 pageviews not so much. Bottom line: IMO we can be pretty confident paid shill/trolls aren’t a problem we have. Yes, we do get the occasional drive-by newbie with an axe to grind. And in the political season we get more carrying political axes. But IMO we’re not subject to paid attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/17 "2016-10-12T00:59:06Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Bottom line: > IMO we can be pretty confident paid shill/trolls aren’t a problem we have. Yes, we do get the occasional drive-by newbie with an axe to grind. And in the political season we get more carrying political axes. But IMO we’re not subject to paid attacks. So I’ve been shilling for nothing, huh. I smell communism or consumerism, you know, that thing I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/18 "2016-10-12T01:11:40Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > You mean I could get paid for sitting here and posting all day? Where do I sign up? FTR- Yeah, I could have used that money too. But I’m not paid or hired or affiliated. What that means is… there are no strings on my hands or feet and if something deserves both barrels, it Gets both barrels. Also, I would never stoop so low as to provide any ammo to those that might try to make any candidate that I personally like ever have to apologize for a thing I say or do. If I worked for or volunteered for someone, then they might have to… and I wouldn’t like that. Madam Secretary, you don’t have to disavow a Damn thing. I’ve got this… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/19 "2016-10-12T01:20:58Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > So I’ve been shilling for nothing, huh. I smell communism or consumerism, you know, that thing I mean. I’m sure if you asked the Trump campaign, they’d assure you that your paycheck’s in the mail. ---
**Author:** ![Me\_Billy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Me\_Billy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Me_Billy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280/20 "2016-10-12T16:03:54Z")
A paid shill would tend to only have posts on one topic. And would be a newly registered member. Same as a spammer. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-we-know-if-a-person-on-this-board-is-a-paid-troll/768280.md?page=2)