# How would world religions deal with discovery of sapient alien life? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401 "2012-12-28T17:48:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/41 "2013-01-02T06:20:39Z")
Come up with justifications to take advantage of their land, services and resources. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/42 "2013-01-02T13:34:55Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > the discovery of aliens doesn’t have to end religion in general or Catholicism in particular any more than the discovery of atomic fission did. Frankly, atomic fission poses a greater threat to end religion than most other scientific discoveries. ---
**Author:** ![furdmort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@furdmort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furdmort)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/43 "2013-01-02T14:27:09Z")
> [@For You](#): > > \*\*Human sapient intellect is entirely social and linguistic. Without language \*\*and complex social behavior, we are barely different from any other animal. Abstract concepts like zero and next year cannot be retained, or for that matter obtained, except linguistically, and we only get them from other people. > …Snip Ah, no. FFS, I wish I knew where this idea comes from. Thought is emphatically NOT tied to linguistics, and I don’t need social anything to do it. I know that the idea that thought is tied to language has been around for a while, but it should be obvious that it is false. Expressing a thought to another person may well be done linguistically, but not not necessarily. I damned well don’t use words in my head when arranging rocks to build a dry stone wall ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry\_stone](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_stone)) When I write software, I don’t think the actions through in subvocalized english (or german.) I build in my mind a construct of concepts and visualizations and actions that I can translate to english or german to communicate with my coworkers, or that I can translate into blocks of computer code. The idividual parts don’t even necessarily have names until I have to tell someone about it or I have to create a variable or method name for the program. Thinking is NOT the process of vocalization. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/44 "2013-01-02T15:51:50Z")
> [@Indian](#): > > …way back in [2008](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/14/vatican-its-ok-to-believe_n_101690.html). > > May be the news didn’t percolate down? Have the Pope put it on twitter. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/45 "2013-01-04T19:10:11Z")
> [@furdmort](#): > > Ah, no. FFS, I wish I knew where this idea comes from. Thought is emphatically NOT tied to linguistics, and I don’t need social anything to do it. > > I know that the idea that thought is tied to language has been around for a while, but it should be obvious that it is false. Expressing a thought to another person may well be done linguistically, but not not necessarily. I damned well don’t use words in my head when arranging rocks to build a dry stone wall ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry\_stone](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_stone)) > > When I write software, I don’t think the actions through in subvocalized english (or german.) I build in my mind a construct of concepts and visualizations and actions that I can translate to english or german to communicate with my coworkers, or that I can translate into blocks of computer code. The idividual parts don’t even necessarily have names until I have to tell someone about it or I have to create a variable or method name for the program. > > Thinking is NOT the process of vocalization. You misunderstand what I meant. Without language, humans have no means to _establish_ intellect. All animals engage in thought to some extent or another, but abstract concepts are established by communication. Without the facility for complex language and the social wiring that compels us to use it, we would not be significantly more intelligent than baboons, because our brains are basically _tabula rasa_ when we are born (we have to learn nearly everything). The fact that your mental processes do not exhibit in verbal form does not alter the fact that you had to obtain those processes via learning, via language. If you had no language capability, you would have no way to grasp programming concepts in the first place, we are not hard-wired to understand these things and cannot directly inherit this understanding genetically. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/46 "2013-01-04T19:54:05Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Frankly, atomic fission poses a greater threat to end religion than most other scientific discoveries. Only inasmuch as it poses a threat to life. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/47 "2013-01-06T23:18:42Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > So, why do you think my old coworker was so dead-set against discovering aliens? As a Catholic, why did he fear it would be the end of religion? Consider that in 1600, the Catholic Church [burned Giordano Bruno for heresy.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_bruno#Imprisonment.2C_trial_and_execution.2C_1592.E2.80.931600) One of his heresies was believing in the existence of a “plurality of worlds” – a vast Cosmos of which humans are only a small part. Well, that was then, this is now, and the Church today can be expected to be much more open-minded on the point; but this does show how Church doctrine might have a problem with it. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/48 "2013-01-07T02:21:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Consider that in 1600, the Catholic Church [burned Giordano Bruno for heresy.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_bruno#Imprisonment.2C_trial_and_execution.2C_1592.E2.80.931600) One of his heresies was believing in the existence of a “plurality of worlds” – a vast Cosmos of which humans are only a small part. Well, that was then, this is now, and the Church today can be expected to be much more open-minded on the point; but this does show how Church doctrine might have a problem with it. Yo, [Post #37 above](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/14/vatican-its-ok-to-believe_n_101690.html). They’re not just more open-minded, they’ve _reversed_. Catholics themselves tend to be oddly behind the institution on the relationship with science and to believe it’s more fundamentalistic than it really is. (OTOH, it’s a pretty sure bet that the Church would oppose sex with aliens. Just because that is still big with them). ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/49 "2013-01-07T02:33:45Z")
If we discover the aliens, the proselytizing groups will race to convert them. They will point to our superior technology as proof that we are the Chosen Ones. If the aliens discover _us_, they are the Debil and must be resisted at all costs. Even if it means suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/50 "2013-01-07T02:41:10Z")
Well, if they’re lucky, we’d better run into them once they’ve developed at least some level of technology. If they’re just banging rocks together like we did for 90% of human existence, I think there’d be a lot of argument that they’re not really sentient and therefore we don’t need to treat them as anything more than dumb animals. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/51 "2013-01-07T05:06:52Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > (OTOH, it’s a pretty sure bet that the Church would oppose sex with aliens. Just because that is still big with them). It’s also a pretty sure bet that sex between humans and ETs would be no more possible than a dog mating with a lobster. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/52 "2013-01-07T05:28:17Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Well, if they’re lucky, we’d better run into them once they’ve developed at least some level of technology. If they’re just banging rocks together like we did for 90% of human existence, I think there’d be a lot of argument that they’re not really sentient and therefore we don’t need to treat them as anything more than dumb animals. Of course, they’re probably not edible to us and don’t have or grow anything edible, and live in air we can’t breathe and vice-versa so enslavement would be impractical, and in short entirely useless to us. They only have to worry if their planet has rich deposits of unobtanium. Likewise, if they’re more advanced and discover us first. I really don’t understand what Stephen Hawking was so worried about, when he speculated First Contact would be like that between Columbus and the Indians. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/53 "2013-01-07T14:34:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It’s also a pretty sure bet that sex between humans and ETs would be no more possible than a dog mating with a lobster. It would be interesting to see if sex is a weirdly unique Earth thing. There’s no good reason to believe that sex should arise in all life around the universe, but then there’s no good reason to believe it shouldn’t either. So, assuming that most sapient life in the universe evolves with multiple sexes, we’d also need to be compatible with them in size. And who knows how likely that is! ☹ No hot alien dudes for me I guess!!! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/54 "2013-01-07T16:19:16Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > It would be interesting to see if sex is a weirdly unique Earth thing. There’s no good reason to believe that sex should arise in all life around the universe, but then there’s no good reason to believe it shouldn’t either. > > So, assuming that most sapient life in the universe evolves with multiple sexes, we’d also need to be compatible with them in size. And who knows how likely that is! > > ☹ No hot alien dudes for me I guess!!! I recall a short story from the 1950s or '60s by Isaac Asimov, “Playboy and the Slime God.” An ET exploration-official from a species that reproduces asexually, by “budding,” is trying to alert his superior to the potential threat posed by humans, who reproduce sexually – they’ve never encountered sexual reproduction before, but the reshuffling of genes with each generation makes evolution go so much faster! The humor arises from the official trying to get a man and woman he has captured to demonstrate the process for his (gotta pick a personal pronoun here) superior. Unfortunately, his understanding of sex comes from stories published in _Recreationlad_ magazine, which, at the period, still kinda obfuscate things . . . so he’s expecting the baby to pop out right after the two humans kiss. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/55 "2013-01-07T21:00:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It’s also a pretty sure bet that sex between humans and ETs would be no more possible than a dog mating with a lobster. Sex with result - yes. But the eminent research Mr. Portnoy demonstrated that you could have sex with liver, so I wouldn’t write off this possibility too quickly. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/56 "2013-01-07T21:12:04Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Sex with result - yes. But the eminent research Mr. Portnoy demonstrated that you could have sex with liver, so I wouldn’t write off this possibility too quickly. I don’t think even Portnoy would do a lobster, alive or dead, in-the-shell or just-the-shelled-tail. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/57 "2013-01-10T00:32:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > They only have to worry if their planet has rich deposits of unobtanium. And even then, only if the unobtanium in question is some kind of petroleum-analogue, only to be found on a life-bearing planet. Otherwise, any spacefaring race would find it much easier to mine it from asteroids. ---
**Author:** ![NamelessKing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b38774/32.png) [@NamelessKing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NamelessKing)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/58 "2013-01-10T00:47:06Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Would they accept that the aliens have souls, can go to an afterlife, etc? No. Religions center around their dogma, and since it is anthropocentric, it can only mean that aliens must either be treated like animals (non-human life) or they must be treated like figures mentioned in the text (a case of reading present events into old stories). In the latter case this means aliens would be considered as angels, or demons, or djinn - again, no souls. > [@](#): > > Would they look to religious texts for proof/verification of aliens? For example, they might maintain that the Earth was special and created especially for Man, but at some point Man left earth and changed into other things on other planets. Some new-age religions might do this. Some already have comparable mythologies. However, it would all depend upon reading current events into ancient texts’ ambiguity. Most likely they would be interpretted as demons or evil beings by old religions, or simply soulless inferiors like animals. > [@](#): > > Would any religions throw up their hands and say “we were wrong, man wasn’t specially created by God. Show’s over folks, time to go home…” Let me ask you, are you an alien? When has any church ever simply admitted to being wrong (without waiting over four centuries, as in the pope’s admission that Galileo was right)? > [@](#): > > Would the world become more or less religious in retaliation to the discovery? This depends on how well religions are able to reconcile it. Nebulous religions, and religions that rely much less on strict dogma, would tend to survive. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/59 "2013-01-10T00:53:02Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Well, if they’re lucky, we’d better run into them once they’ve developed at least some level of technology. If they’re just banging rocks together like we did for 90% of human existence, I think there’d be a lot of argument that they’re not really sentient and therefore we don’t need to treat them as anything more than dumb animals. Might I amend your last phrase as such: therefore we don’t need to treat them as anything more than dumb animals **that we can exploit for our own purposes**. That _is_ our pattern, just in general, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401/60 "2013-01-10T02:21:10Z")
Nothing has or can end magical thinking among puny humans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-world-religions-deal-with-discovery-of-sapient-alien-life/645401.md?page=4)