# How would you briefly describe what "good writing" is? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 27, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063 "2010-03-27T23:12:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/21 "2010-03-28T22:33:08Z")
Yes. Good writing makes you want to read more. There are many techniques to do this, but that’s the key. ---
**Author:** ![HeadNinja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b4bc9f/32.png) [@HeadNinja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeadNinja)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/22 "2010-03-29T16:31:47Z")
A writing teacher a long time ago, when we were talking about the subjective nature of good writing: “If, when reading something, you wish you had written it, it is good writing.” ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/23 "2010-03-30T18:54:33Z")
If you notice the style of the author then its not good writing. If there seems to be a magical transference of the story to your brain,ie.you read it but without actually noticing the words and are "there "in the story then that very good writing. If its the above and you can’t put the book down then its great writing. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/24 "2010-03-30T19:57:32Z")
I know it when I read it. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/25 "2010-03-30T20:49:44Z")
Good writing is writing I would read even if I didn’t have to. ---
**Author:** ![jordanr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@jordanr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jordanr2)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/26 "2010-03-30T23:37:21Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > If you notice the style of the author then its not good writing. not sure the likes of Nabokov or Henry Green would’ve been on board with that. Anyway, there’s no clear-cut way of putting it: it’s writing that can be conspicuous or its reverse, though in evaluating it I tend to feel more generous toward flamboyant writing: I’ve read too many immersive stories rendered in horrible prose to think it has anything to do with how compelling a book is. At the very least, the writer should be conscious of language - not falling back on cliches, and putting in question the very notion of what it means to write. It should be necessary writing, not a transparent screen revealing a page-turning story. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/27 "2010-03-31T09:38:42Z")
> [@jordanr2](#): > > not sure the likes of Nabokov or Henry Green would’ve been on board with that. > > Anyway, there’s no clear-cut way of putting it: it’s writing that can be conspicuous or its reverse, though in evaluating it I tend to feel more generous toward flamboyant writing: I’ve read too many immersive stories rendered in horrible prose to think it has anything to do with how compelling a book is. At the very least, the writer should be conscious of language - not falling back on cliches, and putting in question the very notion of what it means to write. It should be necessary writing, not a transparent screen revealing a page-turning story. You have missed my point completely. If you notice cliches,horrible prose etc.then its bad writing. If you notice flamboyance, the complexity of the language and so forth it is still bad writing. The latter is merely pretentious or at best narcissitic bad writing aimed at pretentious readers. Those who are more concerned with discussing the book afterwards then with the actual enjoyment of reading it. Books are written with the main purpose of being read rather then discussed. When great artists set out to paint a landscape , they didn’t think to themselves, “Oh I hope the viewer notices my cunning use of the palette knife in the top, left hand corner, or I’ll do some finger work in the center that doesn’t really enhance the image of the painting as a whole but people will think that I’m really intelligent .” They think “This is the image I wish to portray to get “that” emotional reponse” and the mechanics of their artwork is merely a means to that end . Though IME people who don’t really enjoy art for its own sake waffle on about the mechanics of it to compensate for their own lackings in this area. As to immersion IMO it is impossible if it is written in horrible prose. Immersion means just that and only that. ---
**Author:** ![footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9f8e36/32.png) [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/footballisplayedwithyourfeet)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/28 "2010-03-31T09:43:40Z")
I agree with all the people strtessing clarity and brevity, but these things can differ across cultures and languages. I once had to do a group project for university where people said they liked long sentences after I sugested to split up the 5 line sentences into smaller pieces. I also heard from a colleague that was translating an article into French, that a French scholar had told him to crank up the language, because people would think he was dumb if he would stick to his short to-the-point sentences. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/29 "2010-03-31T12:34:47Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > If there seems to be a magical transference of the story to your brain,ie.you read it but without actually noticing the words and are "there "in the story then that very good writing. That’s one kind of good writing, but it’s not the only kind. > [@Lust4Life](#): > > If you notice flamboyance, the complexity of the language and so forth it is still bad writing. > > The latter is merely pretentious or at best narcissitic bad writing aimed at pretentious readers. > > Those who are more concerned with discussing the book afterwards then with the actual enjoyment of reading it. And this is just your own prejudice. If it’s done skillfully and well, if it achieves the effect the writer intended, and if at least some of its readers do enjoy and appreciate it, it’s not bad writing, even if it’s not to your own personal taste. ---
**Author:** ![jordanr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@jordanr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jordanr2)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/30 "2010-03-31T16:53:16Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > You have missed my point completely. I don’t think so. > [@](#): > > If you notice cliches,horrible prose etc.then its bad writing. Obviously. > [@](#): > > If you notice flamboyance, the complexity of the language and so forth it is still bad writing. > > The latter is merely pretentious or at best narcissitic bad writing aimed at pretentious readers. This is where it gets ridiculous. There are hundreds, thousands of great writers who are immediately identifiable by the complexity and sophistication of their language. The aforementioned Nabokov and Green, Woolf, Proust, Joyce, Bellow - Milton, for God’s sake! This is not to say that unadorned writing doesn’t have its value - the likes of Joan Didion and Ernest Hemingway jump immediately to mind - but I think you’re missing the crucial distinction between artful writing and writing that’s stupidly adorned for no real reason. > [@](#): > > Those who are more concerned with discussing the book afterwards then with the actual enjoyment of reading it. God forbid. > [@](#): > > Books are written with the main purpose of being read rather then discussed. Some are written for both purposes. And it’s possible to enjoy complex writing at the time of reading it, without any discussion afterward (though I pity any lover of literature who hasn’t delved into some of the enjoyable and occasionally zany Joyce scholarship out there). > [@](#): > > When great artists set out to paint a landscape , they didn’t think to themselves, “Oh I hope the viewer notices my cunning use of the palette knife in the top, left hand corner, or I’ll do some finger work in the center that doesn’t really enhance the image of the painting as a whole but people will think that I’m really intelligent .” Glad to know what all “great artists” think of their enterprise, but I don’t see the relevance - literature and painting are different media. > [@](#): > > They think “This is the image I wish to portray to get “that” emotional reponse” and the mechanics of their artwork is merely a means to that end . “merely”? > [@](#): > > Though IME people who don’t really enjoy art for its own sake waffle on about the mechanics of it to compensate for their own lackings in this area. So now you’re dismissing all of criticism? Ignorance at its work. > [@](#): > > As to immersion IMO it is impossible if it is written in horrible prose. > Immersion means just that and only that. I don’t buy it. I’ll happily read any Dean Koontz novel as soon as I can get my hands on it, but that has nothing to do with his talent as a writer - it has to do with his novels being stupid and occasionally visceral escapism. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/31 "2010-03-31T16:56:45Z")
Good writing is reread out of desire, not necessity. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/32 "2010-03-31T17:18:01Z")
Concise ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/33 "2010-03-31T17:30:15Z")
Good writing should convey what the author wanted to say to the reader. And it should do so without calling attention to the writing itself. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/34 "2010-03-31T17:45:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Good writing should convey what the author wanted to say to the reader. And it should do so without calling attention to the writing itself. Totally agree,and I must say you put it a lot better and a lot more concisely then me. For gods sake Nabokov ! Pretentious MOI ? Totally clueless. ---
**Author:** ![jordanr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@jordanr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jordanr2)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/35 "2010-03-31T17:55:42Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > For gods sake Nabokov ! > Pretentious MOI ? > > Totally clueless. wow. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/36 "2010-03-31T18:10:42Z")
The moving finger, having writ, moves on and not all your piety can lure it back to cancel half a line, nor all your tears wash out a word of it. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/37 "2010-03-31T19:16:07Z")
> [@jordanr2](#): > > This is where it gets ridiculous. There are hundreds, thousands of great writers who are immediately identifiable by the complexity and sophistication of their language. The aforementioned Nabokov and Green, Woolf, Proust, Joyce, Bellow - Milton, for God’s sake! Heck, you don’t have to go nearly as highbrow as that for a counterexample to **Lust4Life** ’s claim—take Dr. Seuss. Although he is a pretty clear storyteller, there’s more to his books than “a magical transference of the story to your brain.” If you read a Dr. Seuss book without noticing the language he uses—the rhymes, the made-up words, etc.—you’re missing half the fun. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/38 "2010-03-31T21:19:43Z")
I’d say all good writing is relatively easier to read than bad, and more enjoyable, and usually clear and unambiguous. But more than anything else it works well for its intended purpose. When the purpose is entertainment, the writing draws you in, like Stephen King does me. When the purpose is some kind of fulfillment or enrichment, good writing gets you to invest in it, and then really moves you, like The Grapes of Wrath or A Thousand Splendid Suns. Some will disagree, but writing can even be good because its job is to facilitate delivering an important message and otherwise stay out of the way. Most of Ayn Rand’s books like Atlas Shrugged are in this category, as well as David Seltzer’s book A Child Called It. I bet most people would say that good writing wasn’t the point in these things, and I’d have to agree, but would say that the writing that let these things achieve what they were meant to was good for its intended purpose. Of course, writing can be unclear and still be good, as it was in The Lady and the Tiger. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/39 "2010-03-31T21:23:16Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > If you notice cliches,horrible prose etc.then its bad writing. You need a space after the comma, and another after “etc.”, and you mean “it’s” rather than “its”. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2010, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063/40 "2010-04-01T12:30:29Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > You need a space after the comma, and another after “etc.”, and you mean “it’s” rather than “its”. Well no I don’t actually. I was in fact approaching posting from a whole new, radically different direction in regards to grammar and spelling. Just as Joyce could be radical so can I. Unfortunately I am very much in the advanced guard of modern literature and those who are the intellectual inferiors of myself and the “Chattering classes” oft times miss my nuances reference the prevailing underclasses. But I’m sure that you and your friends at highschool appreciated that really, and that your own post was in actuality an exercise in irony rather then the unfortunate, irrelevant and, lets be honest, pointless post in regards to the actual subject matter of the thread that it would at first have seemed if taken at face value. I hope that I have not been unduly underverbose, as I am more then aware that the fewer and shorter the words; the lower the intelligence of the author of those words. I’ve no doubt that you have, for various reasons, plenty of free time on your hands, so please feel quite free to explore my other posts for other examples of my creativity, or literary genius, as I usually hear my worshippers call it. I personally call it posting when tired or distracted or even horror of horrors,being lazy as I’m only posting on a recreational M.B. So have fun now, theres a wealth of missing apostrophes out there in my record,not to mention misplaced and missing spaces,no doubt spelling errors and who knows what else ? I envy you ! Sometimes I almost wish I didn’t have a girl friend. Or is it grill" thrennd!!! ???(Just to get you started) Be sure to keep me informed of what you discover in the rich seams that I have presented to you. I await your response with bated breath. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-briefly-describe-what-good-writing-is/534063.md?page=3)