# How Would You Change the Constitution? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 15, 2001, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583 "2001-11-15T19:31:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2001, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/41 "2001-11-16T21:43:13Z")
OK, that’s legitimate. But I just did a quick search through the entire text, from Preamble to Amendment XXVII. And you know what? “God” does not appear **once** in it. Only in Amendment I is religion made reference to, and then only to forbid Congress from messing with it. So off the top of my head, I’d say it does just what you want. The Pledge of Allegiance and the Declaration of Independence, of course, do make reference to God. But they are not the supreme law of the land, just parts of the United States Code. If you have a problem with the wording, they can be changed. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2001, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/42 "2001-11-16T22:22:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Naturally, I favor scrapping the whole thing and replacing it with enough to define a libertarian monarchy with separated arbitration and no legislation, plus a single law: Every citizen shall be guaranteed freedom from coercion. The whole thing would be one page, max. \*\* It isn’t really all that long right now, (with reasonable formatting) about 6.5 pages. Including the amendments about 11. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2001, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/43 "2001-11-16T22:45:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bnorton \* > \*\*I would like to see an amendment that prohibited laws for which there is no direct victim (prostitution, drug use, etc.) \*\* While I agree in general with that I don’t think you can say such things are victimless. E.g. A woman gets hooked on heroin, turns to prostitution to support her habit and over the course of her ‘career’ get AIDS and infects 20 other people with the disease. Obviously that’s a debate for another thread but I’m just pointing out it isn’t so easy and probably doesn’t belong in the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2001, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/44 "2001-11-16T22:53:27Z")
One Cell, his name is Poly_carp_, not Polycrap. I don’t know now whether you intended a backhanded gesture or what. Please state plainly exactly what problem it is that you have with people of faith. ---
**Author:** ![TheeGrumpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2001, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/45 "2001-11-16T23:22:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > **…I just did a quick search through the entire text, from Preamble to Amendment XXVII. And you know what? “God” does not appear once in it. Only in Amendment I is religion made reference to, and then only to forbid Congress from messing with it.** I’m glad somebody else noticed. Technically, Article VI, paragraph 3 includes the “no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust” clause. So there are two references to religion in the U.S. Constitution, both exclusionary, and no references to any sort of God. Consider it done, One Cell. ---
**Author:** ![One\_Cell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e95f7d/32.png) [@One\_Cell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_Cell)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2001, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/46 "2001-11-16T23:26:12Z")
I am sorry. The misspelling of Polycarp was merely a type-o. As to what problems, if any, I have with people of faith, please – no hijacking of this thread. That would be subject of a different thread that I would gladly participate, if you start one. Back to this thread. As **Polycarp** said, the Pledge of Allegiance and the Declaration of Independence do make references to God. Would you have any objection if a bill is introduced to remove the references. If you object, please explain your vision of democracy with regard to this issue. ---
**Author:** ![jmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmonster)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2001, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/47 "2001-11-16T23:54:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by One Cell \* > Back to this thread. As **Polycarp** said, the Pledge of Allegiance and the Declaration of Independence do make references to God. > > Would you have any objection if a bill is introduced to remove the references. If you object, please explain your vision of democracy with regard to this issue. The original Pledge of Allegiance did not have the “under God” part; Congress added it in '54. The orginal author would not have approved. [http://www.vineyard.net/vineyard/history/pledge.htm](http://www.vineyard.net/vineyard/history/pledge.htm) ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2001, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/48 "2001-11-16T23:59:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rysdad \* > \*\*I’d propose that, in order to be enfranchised, one must complete some form of federal service. Whether it be in the armed services, federal work service, or even some sort of authorized community service, a person should invest some of their energy into supporting the country that defends and supports them. > > I’m not talking about unpaid volunteer work. > > I think that _earning_ the right to vote would result in people cherishing it more dearly and exercising it more carefully, and probably more often. The percentage of voter turnout in 2000 (approx 51%) is too low, IMHO. \*\* Niiiice. You just gave the government choice over who is and isn’t allowed to vote. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2001, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/49 "2001-11-17T00:33:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by One Cell \* > \*\*Back to this thread. As **Polycarp** said, the Pledge of Allegiance and the Declaration of Independence do make references to God. > > Would you have any objection if a bill is introduced to remove the references. If you object, please explain your vision of democracy with regard to this issue. \*\* Um, why would you want to revise the Declaration of Independence? It’s an historical document. We declared independence from Great Britain, and that was how we announced it 225 years ago. It’s not like it determines any of our laws today. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2001, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/50 "2001-11-17T00:37:52Z")
To offset the probability of the potential imbalance of a presidential line-item veto, how about making an amendment to prohibit the discussion of and the proposal to add riders irrelevant to the bill in question. Only exemptions and loopholes are OK to amend to a bill. The congressman will have to justify its inclusion or else it is required to be rejected out of hand. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2001, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/51 "2001-11-17T00:48:40Z")
**Whack-a-Mole** , like you, I don’t wish to hijack this thread any further. But I disagree with your rationale as to why prostitution isn’t a victimless crime. **Polycarp** you can place me firmly in the group that hates the electoral college in its present form. There _might_ be some acceptable forms of representative voting that’s works well, but for my money it’s all about the popular vote. ---
**Author:** ![Rmat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85e7bf/32.png) [@Rmat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rmat)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2001, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/52 "2001-11-17T03:28:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chance the Gardener \* > \*\*Reënfranchise ex-felons. If you’re in prison, your voting rights should be suspended, but once you’ve paid your debt to society, you should be allowed to vote again. No state should be allowed to deny ex-felons that right. \*\* (Brought to you by the Democratic Party) ---
**Author:** ![Rmat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85e7bf/32.png) [@Rmat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rmat)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2001, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/53 "2001-11-17T03:29:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DPWhite \* > \*\*Elimination of the United States Senate because it allows a population and political support base of about 6% (theoritically based on current census) to filibuster the country to a standstill and increase house terms to 4 years. > > Next up is direct popular election of the President. > > After that, 20 year term limits for Supreme Court justices. \*\* Well, you’ve got one good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Rmat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85e7bf/32.png) [@Rmat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rmat)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2001, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/54 "2001-11-17T03:39:02Z")
Ok, it’s time to be constructive: Eliminate all federal jurisdiction, except for the enforcement of federal criminal statutes. No causes of action will be eliminated; any causes of action created by Congress can be brought in state court. The world will be a far better place. Ok, maybe just the US will be a far better place. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2001, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/55 "2001-11-17T03:52:41Z")
My favorite amendment ever is one in which _all_ persons are prohibited from government service of _any_ kind if they are found guilty of any misdemeanor which could carry a fine over $_x_ and/or _y_ time in jail. That should clean up our legal system quick enough. Course we could grandfather the existing government in… I mean, hey, the government isn’t my mommy. “Do as I say and not as I do” isn’t good enough for me with respect to them. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2001, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/56 "2001-11-17T06:55:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by One Cell \* > As **Polycarp** said, the Pledge of Allegiance and the Declaration of Independence do make references to God. > > Would you have any objection if a bill is introduced to remove the references. If you object, please explain your vision of democracy with regard to this issue. I suppose I wouldn’t have any objections but what’s the point? Too many people think the Declaration of Independence is a legal document. As far as our curent legal system is concerned the Declaration of Independence is meaningless. It’s really no more than a nifty historical document. There’d be no use in removing “God” from that document. > [@](#): > > _Enderw24 wrote:_ > Whack-a-Mole, like you, I don’t wish to hijack this thread any further. But I disagree with your rationale as to why prostitution isn’t a victimless crime. I’m intrigued…you think there’s another worthwhile thread in this? ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2001, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/57 "2001-11-17T07:19:22Z")
heck, knock yourself out, **Mole** , but I’m too tired to participate constructively tonight. Erislover… BWAH HA HA HAHHHHAAAA!!! oh, you were serious. Well, that’s an, um, interesting suggestion. But, um, see, even if we assume 10% of the population works in government jobs (which is a gross underestimate), that’s 30 million people. 30 million background checks. Lots and lots and lots (and lots) of layoffs. Or if we grandfather them in, there will be lots of vacancies pretty darn soon. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2001, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/58 "2001-11-17T15:08:55Z")
Either that, **Ender** , or the government says “Hey, maybe we really do have too many laws…” Right? 😉 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2001, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/59 "2001-11-17T16:03:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Would you have any objection if a bill is introduced to remove the references. If you object, please explain your vision of democracy with regard to this issue. My vision of democracy? 😃 Well, my vision of democracy is the massive gang rape of rights given to people by God or nature. Regarding the pledge to the rah-rah rag, do you mean to say that there is such a thing in some _offical_ capacity? If so, I say don’t just remove deity references; remove the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2001, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583/60 "2001-11-17T19:23:47Z")
Technically, the Declaration, contrary to most books on law, **is** in fact law: Chapter 1 of the United States Code. However, its sole effect as such is to prevent any government regulation from violating the principles it sets forth, since no administrative regulation can contravene statute law. ( **Bricker**? You around? Check me on this, please.) I’m curious about why **Rmat** felt that the re-enfrancizing of felons who have served their sentences was a partisan (Democratic) ploy. Offhand, I’d say that most felons who have served their time and who would be interested in voting, would be inclined to vote Republican. These would in general have committed “white-collar crime.” It would, IMHO, be rare for a convicted burglar, rapist, etc., to seek the franchise. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-constitution/93583.md?page=4)