# How would you change the movie "Independence Day" from what it is to a good movie? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 4, 2012, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177 "2012-07-04T03:09:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/41 "2012-07-04T18:27:50Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > Change the name of Will Smith’s character. C’mon. Whoever heard of a black dude named “Steve”? > > Other than that, it’s an awesome movie and I wouldn’t change a thing. [Steve Harvey](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0367724/) would like a word with you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/42 "2012-07-04T18:45:05Z")
So would [Steve Urkel](https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tok=n8RGfiZfKt6hkTbjqu6S7Q&cp=3&gs_id=a&xhr=t&q=urkel&safe=off&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=636&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=-Y70T6-YO6fi2gWRjaHvBg#um=1&hl=en&safe=off&tbm=isch&q=steve+urkel&revid=417629305&sa=X&ei=Co_0T7uMAqqs2gWXiK3gBg&ved=0CFUQgxY&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=5be8dca42de9c6ee&biw=1280&bih=636). ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/43 "2012-07-04T18:47:58Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Nuking the mothership destroys the shields, no hacking. This. That is one of the big things that bugged me about this movie. The aliens are gonna fucking kill everybody on the planet. It’s not just like they swung by to steal some skittles and are planing to leave shortly thereafter. But ohhh NOES we can’t use a few nukes because that would anger mother earth or sumptin. Fucking mother earth hippies. At the very least, show a few nukes being used and they don’t work for shit so it’s on to plan B. Or did they try a nuke? I forget. But they sure acted like using a nuke was like asking your mother to become a stripper to pay for the cable bill. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/44 "2012-07-04T18:49:24Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > More Judd Hirsch. And his character needs to be more Jewish. Sure he wears a yarmulke and speaks in an accent that would make Jackie Mason say “Come again?”, but we don’t even know if he’s circumcised. But meanwhile, you had to off poor Harvey Fierstein? ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/45 "2012-07-04T18:55:11Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > I class it as a ‘popcorn flick’ - entertainment that does not require any real thinking. I like it for the same reason people like Buckaroo Banzai, The Shining or any other movie that totally lacks any deep inner meaning whatsoever. When I sit down to watch a movie, I want entertainment, I do not want any deep inner meaning, I do not want any existential angst, I don’t even want to worry about the environment. I want to kill a few hours being entertained. I also enjoy popcorn films. Two of my favorite are The Rock and True Lies. However, I loathe ID4 with every fiber of my being. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/46 "2012-07-04T19:12:37Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > This. > > That is one of the big things that bugged me about this movie. The aliens are gonna fucking kill everybody on the planet. It’s not just like they swung by to steal some skittles and are planing to leave shortly thereafter. > > But ohhh NOES we can’t use a few nukes because that would anger mother earth or sumptin. Fucking mother earth hippies. > > At the very least, show a few nukes being used and they don’t work for shit so it’s on to plan B. > > Or did they try a nuke? I forget. But they sure acted like using a nuke was like asking your mother to become a stripper to pay for the cable bill. They did try a nuke on Houston, I believe, and it didn’t work. But yes, they were way too Hollywood-sensitive-whiney about it. All of our major cities have been destroyed, who gives a fuck if you loose a few nukes? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/47 "2012-07-04T19:25:49Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > They did try a nuke on Houston, I believe, and it didn’t work. But yes, they were way too Hollywood-sensitive-whiney about it. All of our major cities have been destroyed, who gives a fuck if you loose a few nukes? Ahhh, it’s starting to come back to me now. But like you said. Seriously, once major cities start getting vaporized and at the very least a few test nukes don’t start flying moments later was just way to WTF? kinda peacenik hippy shit for me. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/48 "2012-07-04T19:27:16Z")
More Brent Spiner in highwaters. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/49 "2012-07-04T21:52:39Z")
> [@Ashley\_Pomeroy](#): > > \ > All those people who enjoyed the film. _They were wrong_. Wrong to enjoy it. They should have disrespected it, by throwing popcorn at the screen. “Curse you”, the audience should have said, “for your fundamental inability to grasp the basics of motivation and tension and so forth”. > > I mean, at least in _Godzilla_ they established that the creature _might_ have been hurt by missiles and so forth, even though we knew it wasn’t going to get the chop until the end of the film. Yes! Exactly! I have _nothing_ against feel-good popcorn flicks, but there needs to be something going on that doesn’t make me feel like they’re insulting my intelligence for enjoying them. > [@Sampiro](#): > > And his character needs to be more Jewish. Sure he wears a yarmulke and speaks in an accent that would make Jackie Mason say “Come again?”, but we don’t even know if he’s circumcised. > > But meanwhile, you had to off poor Harvey Fierstein? Oh yeah, that was another thing I’d change - get rid of Harvey’s character altogether. He contributed nothing except annoyance. > [@teela\_brown](#): > > More Brent Spiner in highwaters. Well, sure, but that would make any movie better. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/50 "2012-07-04T22:51:33Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > Change the name of Will Smith’s character. C’mon. Whoever heard of a black dude named “Steve”? In a perfect movie, our hero the hacker would get flown into position by Stevie Wonder. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/51 "2012-07-04T22:52:30Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Whisperer] Oh yeah, that was another thing I’d change - get rid of Harvey’s character altogether. He contributed nothing except annoyance. [/QUOTE] The Jewish dad and Harvey Fierstein, gay and Jewish, were the two most annoying characters… and now… now… now… Goldlbum is on GLEE playing… a gay Jewish dad… there’s a pattern here, AND IT’S TICKING BACKWARDS! ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/52 "2012-07-05T13:50:21Z")
> [@Ashley\_Pomeroy](#): > > I couldn’t really enjoy it when I saw it at the cinema because of a major plot issue. Not anything to do with the Macs, or the tonnes of metal crashing down on the heroes’ heads. It’s that for the first ninety per cent of the film the aliens are almost entirely invulnerable, on account of their magic force fields. > > Which means that the aerial dogfights near the beginning were just pointless, because the aliens were invulnerable. Our missiles had no effect whatsoever. Because the aliens were invulnerable. I mean, the big space battle at the end of _Return of the Jedi_ is exciting, because - although we know that the goodies are going to win - the fighting at least _has purpose_. Spaceships blow up, there’s a certain amount of strategy, some of the good guys are killed, and so are some of the baddies. But if the villain and his soldiers and spaceships are utterly invincible what’s the point? The action doesn’t have any purpose. Unless the intention was to show a heroic but doomed last stand, but I never had the sense that the filmmakers were capable of emotional nuance. > > The 1950s _War of the Worlds_ had a similar problem. The soldiers are going to lose; the nuclear bomber is going to lose; the aliens are untouchable. The action sequences aren’t really action sequences at all. They’re literally _action-packed_ in the sense that there are explosions and so forth; but there’s a difference between e.g. the London marathon and a movie action sequence. They both have motion and dynamism, but the former is just a lot of sweaty people running for fun and glory whereas the latter has _meaning_ and _purpose_ and _emotional resonance_. > > Yeah, Will Smith manages to down an alien fighter, but it’s a total fluke. I would have shown at least some of the aerial action _having an effect_. Make it look as if we _might just possibly win_, until the aliens unleash their reinforcements. Have our side fight hard and push the aliens back a bit, even though we’re doomed. As it stands we just _lose_, and lose again, and then we magic a solution out of a Macintosh and then we win. The story is fundamentally broken. A good action sequence should have a tense, edge-of-the-seat quality, not just one side repeatedly failing to scratch the other side and then losing. Imagine if the Ali-Foreman fight had consisted of Foreman punching Ali really hard over and over again, and then Ali just falls onto the mat and loses. That’s basically _Independence Day_, except that in _Independence Day_ Ali uses a Mac Powerbook to write a virus which he then implants into George Foreman’s brain - via his nose - which causes Foreman’s brain to shut down at which point Ali has to punch him in a very special place. And the poor ostrich died for nothing. That’s called a mixed metaphor, it’s one of the fundamental underpinnings of the _Alan Partridge_ series. > > All those people who enjoyed the film. _They were wrong_. Wrong to enjoy it. They should have disrespected it, by throwing popcorn at the screen. “Curse you”, the audience should have said, “for your fundamental inability to grasp the basics of motivation and tension and so forth”. > > I mean, at least in _Godzilla_ they established that the creature _might_ have been hurt by missiles and so forth, even though we knew it wasn’t going to get the chop until the end of the film. Eh, I disagree. The whole point of the dogfight was to show that the aliens were impervious to conventional attack. Watching the Few and the Proud get beat like a fresh batch of mochi on the Japanese New Year (Youtube it) was what they were going for. If not to show it, how else would they explain that our fighters are entirely ineffective? By having someone just say that sans demonstration? That said, we only ever see two dogfights in the entire movie. The one where the good guys get mowed over, and the one where the good guys get some much-deserved payback once the aliens magical bullshit forcefields have been taken away from them. The scene where they try to use a nuke was there simply to show that the nuke wouldn’t do any good. As for using the nuke sooner, I dunno, there was only a few hours time difference between the air battle and the nuking of Houston. Remember that the entire film, from opening credits to fireworks, lasts something like three days or less. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/53 "2012-07-05T13:58:56Z")
Yes, but they should have nuked Houston right off the bat, preferably before anyone even knew about the aliens. _That_ would make a more interesting film! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/54 "2012-07-05T16:52:22Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > The Jewish dad and Harvey Fierstein, gay and Jewish, were the two most annoying characters… and now… > > now… > > now… Goldlbum is on GLEE playing… a gay Jewish dad… there’s a pattern here, AND IT’S TICKING BACKWARDS! Oh oh. > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Yes, but they should have nuked Houston right off the bat, preferably before anyone even knew about the aliens. _That_ would make a more interesting film! I can’t disagree with this. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/55 "2012-07-05T16:55:07Z")
> [@DataZak](#): > > Kill Boomer the dog. Seriously… everything else can stay as hokey as it was… kill the damn dog. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/56 "2012-07-05T17:32:50Z")
The movie opens with an expanding mushroom cloud over Houston as its buildings are swept away, and then the camera pulls back to show that the President and the White House staff are watching it on TV. The President rubs his hand together and says, “Our long national nightmare is over. We can look forward to an era of peace and prosperity.” Cue the rumbling sound effects as the alien ships approach… ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/57 "2012-07-05T17:34:47Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > It could mainly be improved by replacing the script and cast, and vaporising the director. Lol, I was going to say basically the same thing: Fire the director and casting agency, rewrite the script from scratch, and erase any hint of the original from the face of the Earth. Then there’s at least a chance of making a good movie. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/58 "2012-07-05T17:46:46Z")
I remember another scene that just bothered the crap out of me. Its when the now sorta sober fighter pilot (Randy Quaid?) flies his jet into the ship to blow it up. If I recall correctly it looked like it was going into the ship at like a few tens of miles per hours, not hundreds. It just looked WRONG. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/59 "2012-07-05T17:55:42Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > It is the greatest of the cliched hackneyed alien attack popcorn genre. why mess with perfection? Right. Or perhaps the Op is asking- how to change Independence day from a \*great \*movie to merely a good one? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177/60 "2012-07-05T18:04:24Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I remember another scene that just bothered the crap out of me. Its when the now sorta sober fighter pilot (Randy Quaid?) flies his jet into the ship to blow it up. If I recall correctly it looked like it was going into the ship at like a few tens of miles per hours, not hundreds. It just looked WRONG. No, what is _wrong_ is the jackasses who laughed at him all those years, and there he is sitting with the rest of the pilots and the dude from the CIA rolling his eyes when he introduces himself and says he wants to get back at the aliens for abducting and probing him HELLO - what is that huge ship floating overhead? Aliens … wow, whodathunk they might have actually abducted someone while researching the planet for takeover. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-change-the-movie-independence-day-from-what-it-is-to-a-good-movie/627177.md?page=4)