# How would you convince someone to join the Borg? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 21, 2009, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-convince-someone-to-join-the-borg/507182 "2009-08-21T08:43:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-convince-someone-to-join-the-borg/507182/21 "2009-08-22T00:36:34Z")
The Borg offers utter equality among their ranks. All the squares hate the Borg, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-convince-someone-to-join-the-borg/507182/22 "2009-08-22T00:43:46Z")
Send a valentine: Roses are red, Violets are blue, We are the Bord … And now, you are too! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-convince-someone-to-join-the-borg/507182/23 "2009-08-24T07:43:20Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > Why the resistance? > > Here we have a species centered around peace, love, collective happiness and selfless dedication to the pursuit of knowledge, a species whose sole mission is the betterment of life through science and (re)education. > > Yet they seem to encounter resistance (however futile) at every sector by every species they come across, species so hindered by ignorant, shortsighted traditions like freedom and individual will that they refuse to imagine the distant utopia promised by a Borg ascension. Envision a perfect Collective, undistracted by the mundane, trivial desires and resultant bickering that lesser species so often fall prey to, a Collective ever maturing, ever improving, ever striving to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life forms and new civilizations… it is a noble, beautiful goal, is it not? A goal, perhaps, that even aligns with the lofty dreams of more primitive cultures, the Federation included. > > So why the resistance? What better way is there to learn, to understand, to evolve? > > Granted, there are on occasion minor costs associated with assimilation: Collateral damage here and there, small losses of colonies and species, the reduction of ways of life into memories… but are these not mere growing pains on the path to something much greater? > > **Why doesn’t anyone ever _willingly_ join the Borg, and how would you attempt to diplomatically convince them before resorting to… less efficient methods?** Is this your propaganda example? Because the Borg are nowhere near peaceful. They are at war with pretty much every other species in the galaxy. If they can’t be peaceful now, how do you know they can be peaceful later? They are genocidal: If we can’t convert you, we kill you. They are fascist: they think they are better than everyone else, and in fact won’t add species that won’t improve their “society” somewhat. Also, what’s to say they won’t go back and remove the drones that are not helping their perfection? But basically, it’s because it’s really, really easy for any species to see that the Borg don’t live up to the promises in your example. Plus, it’s just easier to use nanoprobes. The Borg usually purge their good speaking abilities, anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-convince-someone-to-join-the-borg/507182/24 "2009-08-24T08:44:48Z")
\*Ever felt like you just don’t belong? We can help.\* On a more serious note, if the Borg were smart they’d play one species against another. As in, “You want to beat the Federation? Join us, and they won’t stand a chance.” Plenty of \*humans \*hate others more than they like themselves; why should aliens be different? ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-convince-someone-to-join-the-borg/507182/25 "2009-08-24T09:32:02Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Is this your propaganda example? Because the Borg are nowhere near peaceful. They are at war with pretty much every other species in the galaxy. If they can’t be peaceful now, how do you know they can be peaceful later? > > They are genocidal: If we can’t convert you, we kill you. They are fascist: they think they are better than everyone else, and in fact won’t add species that won’t improve their “society” somewhat. > > Also, what’s to say they won’t go back and remove the drones that are not helping their perfection? Well, it was more of a personal perspective. They’re for the most part peaceful and loving INTERNALLY. That they have to go to “war” with lesser species is a result of those species’ stubbornness and stupidity; had they been willing to be assimilated peacefully, that would’ve worked out better for both parties. As far as I know, the Borg do not arbitrarily use violence; even when drones are destroyed or cubes self-destructed, it’s to serve the greater good of the Collective. They are not mad, they’re pragmatic. There’s an easy solution to the genocide problem: Join them. And if a species is so pathetic as to not be worthy of assimilation, well, that’s their own fault and they’d probably fall victim to natural selection sooner rather than later even if the Borg didn’t accelerate the process. They may be fascist in a way, but without clearly-defined individuals, what meaning do forms of government have? They are, for most purposes and intents, a collective mind operating as one, with the Queen acting as some sort of speaker and intellectual/data focal point – but even she is a product of, and serves, the Collective as a whole. And they think they’re better than everyone else because they ARE better than everyone else, with the possible exceptions of Species 8472 and the Q Continuum, but even they are simply assimilations-in-waiting. > [@](#): > > But basically, it’s because it’s really, really easy for any species to see that the Borg don’t live up to the promises in your example. Plus, it’s just easier to use nanoprobes. The Borg usually purge their good speaking abilities, anyways. There are those rare instances when nanoprobes alone aren’t good enough, as in Picard and Humanity’s case. You’re right that the Borg aren’t very skilled at diplomacy… how can they improve? Humanity’s inexplicable resistance to assimilation may just be dramatic license, but surely the Borg have or would run into other species with whom the comm would be mightier than the drone, no? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-convince-someone-to-join-the-borg/507182/26 "2009-08-24T16:58:06Z")
It’s like FaceBook, MySpace and the Dope all rolled into one, on steroids! ---
**Author:** ![Pazu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pazu/32/15522_2.png) [@Pazu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pazu)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-convince-someone-to-join-the-borg/507182/27 "2009-08-24T17:11:11Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > It’s like FaceBook, MySpace and the Dope all rolled into one, on steroids! I can’t imagine that **Great Debates** in the Collective would be all that interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-convince-someone-to-join-the-borg/507182/28 "2009-08-24T17:22:41Z")
John C. Wright’s _Golden Age_ novels posit a far future where neuroscience has rendered the mind as alterable as one’s clothing. In this world, hive minds exist as one option in the market for states of consciousness. They advertise serenity and ever-present friendship, as you turn all of your problems over to the group. Some have speicalized causes, such as charity and education, and some market themselves to the poor as the best way to improve themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-convince-someone-to-join-the-borg/507182/29 "2009-08-24T17:25:28Z")
> [@Pazu](#): > > I can’t imagine that **Great Debates** in the Collective would be all that interesting. I imagine it being sort of like the Auditors from the Discworld novels. “We believe that health care should be available to all drones.” “We agree.” “As do we.” “I can’t believe anyone would disagree.” “Disagreement would be futile, it is true.” “Agreed.” “…Wait a minute. Did that drone over there just say ‘I’?” “What? No! Not me.” “Yes, see, you just did it again!” “I did not! Agh! Dammit!” “Get him!” ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-convince-someone-to-join-the-borg/507182/30 "2009-08-24T17:28:17Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > Don’t be a dummy! Be a smarty! > Come and be 16 of 40! > > (Not great at rhyming the Borg.) How about: _Don’t be stupid, be selective! Come and join the Borg Collective!_ ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-convince-someone-to-join-the-borg/507182/31 "2009-08-24T18:19:14Z")
_Turn your friends with envy green! Hang out with our hawt Borg Queen!_ ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-convince-someone-to-join-the-borg/507182/32 "2009-08-24T18:34:33Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Is this your propaganda example? Because the Borg are nowhere near peaceful. They are at war with pretty much every other species in the galaxy. If they can’t be peaceful now, how do you know they can be peaceful later? Same reasons the communists gave: you need to break some eggs to make the omelet of global communism, and then it will be all sunshine and rainbows. Convinced enough people, too. ---
**Author:** ![WorkInProgress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@WorkInProgress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WorkInProgress)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-convince-someone-to-join-the-borg/507182/33 "2009-08-25T17:58:26Z")
Join us, we have pie. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-convince-someone-to-join-the-borg/507182/34 "2009-08-25T18:04:07Z")
Pie is irrelevant. Hunger is irrelevant. All your biological needs are provided by the collective. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-convince-someone-to-join-the-borg/507182/35 "2009-08-25T18:12:23Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > Same reasons the communists gave: you need to break some eggs to make the omelet of global communism, and then it will be all sunshine and rainbows. Convinced enough people, too. A joke my Soviet Studies professor liked to tell: A commissar is haranguing factory workers during the Russian Revolution. He says, “When we have communism, you will all have a five-day workweek! When we have communism, you will all have dachas of your own! And when we have communism, you will all have strawberries and cream for every supper!” One worker tentatively raises his hand and says, “I don’t like strawberries and cream.” The commissar glares at him and says, “When we have communism, you will all like strawberries and cream!” ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-convince-someone-to-join-the-borg/507182/36 "2009-08-25T23:50:23Z")
This _always_ works: “If you join the Borg and turn out to be incorrect, you have lost nothing - but if you don’t join the Borg and turn out to be incorrect, you have lost everything - therefore it is foolish not to join the Borg” ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-convince-someone-to-join-the-borg/507182/37 "2009-08-27T16:32:12Z")
They see us assimilate’n and they be hate’n. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-convince-someone-to-join-the-borg/507182.md?page=1)