# How Would You Defend the Concept of a Benevolent and Omnipotent God? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 14, 2021, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878 "2021-03-14T14:08:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/101 "2021-03-15T15:56:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > > > But really, what is theology other than a massive appeal to “mysterious ways”? > > god’s ways are unknowable (except when they are clearly knowable but a certain group of people… and even then not really) - > > Actually, they are knowable when they align perfectly with what you want. [Joseph Smith looks in hat] “Uh, also, I can have as many… wives… as I want?” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/102 "2021-03-15T15:57:44Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The way I see it is God gives us a physical family so we can see the pattern easier of our spiritual family So my mother, father, wife, child etc. are only a practice run and not the real thing? > [@kanicbird](#): > > As I look at Jesus on the cross, what hurt more, the physical, or all the people he loves so much turning against him, even from His perspective the Father turns away. Today we offer those that feel persecuted in such a manner professional help and perhaps medication, because feeding into persecution complexes can only hurt the patient. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/103 "2021-03-15T16:01:08Z")
There could have been a way to engineer a species of sentient beings who are perfect and live in harmony and never suffer from lack of anything and never die. Would that be interesting? Probably not. Maybe. I’m not sure. If you were “The God”, what would you prefer to create? Perfect indestructible beings who never grow because they are already perfect, or something fun but really messy? ---
**Author:** ![velcro](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velcro/32/7102_2.png) [@velcro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velcro)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/104 "2021-03-15T16:02:52Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > If you were “The God”, what would you prefer to create? Perfect indestructible beings who never grow because they are already perfect, or something fun but really messy? There is a middle ground. There are consequences for your actions, but babies do not die painful deaths from natural causes. That’s what a benevolent omnipotent God could create. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/105 "2021-03-15T16:03:48Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > [Throws down, “Mysterious Ways” card] Checkmate! Nice mixed metaphor! ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/106 "2021-03-15T16:04:12Z")
Benevolent God? Let’s have a look at the source book. In Exodus chapter 12 verse 12 God states: “For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night and will smite all the first-born in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; …” And there follows a massive slaughter of men, women and children (plus animals) by God. And why? To make the Pharaoh release the Israelites. But why wouldn’t Pharaoh let the Israelites go? Because in Exodus chapter 7 verse 3, God has told Moses: “And I will harden Pharaoh’s heart…” So this ‘benevolent’ God who could have easily persuaded Pharaoh, instead gleefully sets up a massacre. The Old Testament is full of examples like this (this is just the worst one.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/107 "2021-03-15T16:04:31Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > There could have been a way to engineer a species of sentient beings who are perfect and live in harmony and never suffer from lack of anything and never die. We suffer unnecessary pain to keep God from getting bored? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/108 "2021-03-15T16:07:07Z")
> [@glee](#): > > In Exodus chapter 12 verse 12 God states: > > “For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night and will smite all the first-born in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; …” And slaughtering the first born of all the animals accomplished what, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/109 "2021-03-15T16:08:39Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Nice mixed metaphor! To quote that great philosopher Zapp Branigan “If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards…checkmate!” ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/110 "2021-03-15T16:09:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > > [@glee](#): > > > > In Exodus chapter 12 verse 12 God states: > > > > “For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night and will smite all the first-born in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; …” > > And slaughtering the first born of all the animals accomplished what, exactly? It’s honestly pretty difficult to program an angel. Those things are designed for city-level smiting, and the recursive what-ifs necessary in the mission code to get it to exclude animals would be a bit much even for an omnipotent creature to do. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/111 "2021-03-15T16:10:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > We suffer unnecessary pain to keep God from getting bored? I don’t know. It is a possibility that can’t be disproved. Don’t forget that there is also the abundant joy that exists. Can you have one without the other? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/112 "2021-03-15T16:11:42Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Benevolent God? Let’s have a look at the source book. Let’s not forget punishing numerous generations for the sins of their forebears. Not allowing illegitimate children and the disfigured into the Temple. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/113 "2021-03-15T16:12:07Z")
I have known joy. Thankfully I have never known pediatric bone cancer. I feel like my joy isn’t enhanced by knowing that some children die in agony. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/114 "2021-03-15T16:15:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So my mother, father, wife, child etc. are only a practice run and not the real thing? IMHO yes. If anything I believe we have guardian angels who are our real parents. The most direct and involved ones who watch over us and care for us. In the sense that a guardian is one that looks after a child as a parental authority figure. This fleshes out the family a bit over my simplistic example, but yes physical children are not the same as spiritual children. It is the spiritual structure that is real, physical so we can understand the structure. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/115 "2021-03-15T16:16:53Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > I don’t know. It is a possibility that can’t be disproved. Don’t forget that there is also the abundant joy that exists. Can you have one without the other? I can have chocolate ice cream without topping it with shit so, sure, why not? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/116 "2021-03-15T16:19:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Today we offer those that feel persecuted in such a manner professional help and perhaps medication, because feeding into persecution complexes can only hurt the patient. In this case Jesus seemingly losing everything ends up receiving the greatest gift the Father can actually give him - family. Brothers and sisters that are in His image and likeness. Jesus created His family, which are us. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/117 "2021-03-15T16:20:58Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I have known joy. Thankfully I have never known pediatric bone cancer. > > I feel like my joy isn’t enhanced by knowing that some children die in agony. To be clear I’m not talking about your joy versus someone else’s agony, I’m talking about your joy versus your agony. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/118 "2021-03-15T16:22:50Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > In this case Jesus seemingly losing everything The number of people that have both lost more and suffered more are uncountable, and they got _much_ worse than a three day suspension from life. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/119 "2021-03-15T16:23:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I can have chocolate ice cream without topping it with shit so, sure, why not? But the fact that you know topping it with shit would be bad for you is really important to you. So you are happy when it is not topped with shit. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878/120 "2021-03-15T16:24:54Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Can you have one without the other? Isn’t that exactly what supposedly happens in Heaven? if so, then _can_ have one without the other. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-defend-the-concept-of-a-benevolent-and-omnipotent-god/937878.md?page=7)