That’s a good one. The Bible would be a truly useful book if it had plumbing diagrams and some actual medical knowledge.
Very well put.
Like you, I too don’t know of anyone wise enough to understand God’s reasoning, so there’s no way I can provide any evidence of it.
I am not trying to change anyone’s mind, nor to convince anyone of anything. (At least, I don’t think I am. You might disagree.) What I am trying to do is to suggest the possibility that if there is an afterlife (which I do believe there is), then at that point we might be able to understand these things.
The God of the Old Testament is far from benevolent. He’s actually a vicious SOB who slaughters children who make fun of a holy man’s baldness, commands followers to slay infidels, torments people to test their faith, and demands that you love him unquestionably or face eternal damnation.
The reason people keep saying he’s a loving and benevolent God is because he will torment you tor eternity if you don’t. What a guy.
It’s textbook gaslighting. Straight out of the power and control playbook for domestic violence. Once I saw it, I couldn’t unsee it. I have friends on social media who post Bible verses and I can no longer view it as anything other than, “He’s really loving and compassionate until I make him beat me.”
Let me know when you have first hand accounts we can refer to.
First part, free will does not have to lead to pain and suffering, though it can. Second part, whatever is bound on earth is bound in heaven, pain and suffering exists, as well as spiritual forces of wickedness.
You get to travel between them if you want to. Angels currently do. Well not so sure about the hell part but Jesus appeared to make such a trip. The rounding error you speak of is more of development than judgement.
That last part may be part of it, the reason might be because that baby has an affect on other’s lives. Though I’m pretty sure it’s a case by case basis.
Your view of God and Christianity is pretty unique. The idea that there’s pain, suffering, and wickedness would certainly take some people by surprise. It’s difficult to argue with someone who has entirely their own idea of religious principles, so I’ll back out of this discussion with you.
As I have experienced it, I believe it is not meant to be something that can be presented as evidence. It is made for a person to find though their own seeking. As such it is made by God not to be something that can be proven in the way you are demanding, nor is your way the way God wants it to be, and God set the whole thing up (though Jesus), so i don’t think you will find a crack in the armor. It is not something that will happen that way for most.
However it is not something that is unknowable either, but God can and does prove Him/her self to us i undeniable ways, even for some revealing things of Himself, heaven and what is unseen. But evidence, yeah, ain’t going to happen your way sir.
You can if you wish, but that comes from the Bible, not me. Eph 6:12 IIRC
The trouble with the human mind is if one seeks something hard enough it will be found…whether it is actually there or not.
Your interpretation of a verse that you think agrees with your opinion. That interpretation is not universal and I can see where others might come to a different conclusion viewing other verses.
How about war in heaven Rev 12:7-10, how about Satan in heaven (Job 1:6)?
Revelations is wildly subject to interpretation.
As far as your second reference, this being an Old Testament selection putting it in context as to what is going on helps:
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Then God turns Job’s family into a bunch of Redshirts (Just To Prove A Point!), easily replaceable at the end of the story, never to be mentioned, let alone mourned, again.
But the God of the Christian Bible is worse. After all, being drowned or being mauled by a bear is bad, but eternal torture is a lot worse. He just has a better PR department.
you can’t, because it is factually wrong.
it would be like trying to defend the argument that automobiles are created by trees, that trees build cars when we aren’t looking. you can’t make a good argument for it because it’s not true.
every argument about a benevolent God being in charge will have major holes. either God isn’t powerful or he isn’t good, there’s no way around it.
the real answer as to why evil exists is because evolution is amoral and will pick any traits that enhance survival. and sadly pain is an effective deterrent from death oriented situations while evil behavior can be an effective behavioral mechanism to survive and thrive. as a result the world is full of pain and evil. that’s not all that exists, because pro social behavior is also beneficial to survival. but evolution doesn’t care, evolution invented both good and evil, love and pain, cruelty and cooperation. if evil and pain increase survival by 1% evolution will choose that. if love and happiness increase survival by 1% evolution will pick that.
Evolution invented love and pain, cruelty and cooperation. I say that it’s humans who invented good and evil.
Doesn’t mean they’re not real. We’ve invented a lot of stuff that’s now real.
Were they a different family considering Heb 11:19a: Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead,…"
Note that it says: Job 42:11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the Lord had brought on him, and each one gave him a piece of silverand a gold ring.
Bold mine, would not everyone who had know him before hint at his family considering Heb 11:19?
Some people just want to assume an evil God, but here the restored family has the same number of members as before.
All of his family, little kids included, each gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring?
Seems kind of unlikely to me.
And for what seems like and may actually be the sixth time: what about making humans who like to torture other people?
Using “reasoning” such as this could lead one to believe that NO innocents died in the Bible-Just assume that because God could raise the dead, we can assume that is what actually happened.
Why in the world would his friends and neighbors reference Heb 11:19, and why would you think that, because the sons and daughters weren’t specifically mentioned by the mourners that could only indicate that they were alive?
That could be blamed on mental illness…which could indicate that “free will” is limited.
And which wouldn’t change the implications of the posited God having created humans capable of that particular form of mental illness.