# How would you feel about being a prop at fake wedding? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 26, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639 "2014-09-26T15:04:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/41 "2014-09-26T19:25:46Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > A wedding is a public solemnization and celebration of a union, not a magic transformation contingent on a particular piece of paper being sent to the courthouse. It’s perfectly valid, and extremely normal, to celebrate your wedding before or after the change in the legal status, and these weddings are not “shams” or “fakes” (and it reflects poorly on you for using such incendiary and unfair language—you are smearing a lot of people’s weddings here). And right back at’ya, the above could be offensive to people who did choose to have courthouse or elopement weddings and be truthful about it - those were presumably not real weddings in your view. (Not to mention, to any groups out there who have been unjustly prohibited from getting legally married.) ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/42 "2014-09-26T19:29:45Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > \*\*even sven \*\*- I have the same perspective I have had all along. You are reading things that have not been written. I never wanted or expected him to stay in Podunk or work any particular career, I just expected him to have more respect for his brother and father who have stayed and who are firefighters. The terrible decisions referred to in the OP involved things like moving to New York with a large dog, no job, and very little money, or leaving a salaried job with benefits in his exact chosen field to free-lance. Nothing to do with what he wants to do, all about prudence. Prudence may be overrated. If your disapproval is that obvious on something so completely subjective, can you really be surprised it displeases him? > [@](#): > > I didn’t smear anyone’s wedding. I’m talking about this situation, not the ones that you and others try to claim as equivalent. He represented to me and his mother and others that we were witnessing the beginning of their married lives as well as celebrating their marriage. The first part of that was not true and a pretty active lie. That, IMHO, was fairly douchy and immature. But it sounds like he’s learned to manipulate people and situations to get what he wants, and ethical considerations aside, it seems effective. You can’t really expect someone to give up on something that actually works. On some level, the fact he seems to perceive that you are disappointed with him gives him nothing to lose, emotionally. You don’t support his choices when he’s honest, so why would he be honest? I have some parasitic, manipulative, and dishonest members in my extended family. I have nothing to do with them, and they understand (because I explained it) that this is because I have no intention to be exposed to their futile attempts to manipulate me. I love 'em, I worry about them, but I will not be their patsy. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/43 "2014-09-26T19:36:03Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Good points. In fact, some religions have pretty complex rules as to when and if a secular courthouse wedding is recognized. For example, two Roman Catholics who get married before a judge at town hall generally are considered married with respect to governmental purposes, but the Catholic Church does not recognize that as a legitimate marriage. In the eyes of the church, they are still unmarried, so a subsequent church wedding with the full formalities and ceremonies is the “real” marriage. Yes, as far as the Catholic Church is concerned - but my uncle pissed off his whole Catholic family by doing something related. A year or two after he was widowed he remarried and invited everyone to the church ceremony ( which was in some non-Catholic Church - we assumed his wife was not Catholic). Over a year later, his wife put something on Facebook about that day being their anniversary and apparently got a lot of questions about how was their anniversary in June when we went to their wedding in November. Her response was that the “real wedding” was in June when they had the Catholic ceremony- which made everyone go “WTH- you invited me to the fake wedding” (and why did you even have it if you didn’t see it as a real marriage) Back to the OP, while I realize there are sometimes reasons for a legal ceremony to take place before the party (health insurance,visas, impending births,military or other transfer overseas ), I would probably be annoyed if my child was actually married nearly a year before the party and didn’t tell me. I’m almost sure would I find it to look too much like a “gift grab” for my taste if it turned out that my child was secretly married _and_ lived with the spouse for 11 months before the party. Few parties other than weddings happen on the exact day of the events they celebrate - that’s not really the issue. But no one throws a graduation , retirement , christening/communion/confirmation/bar mitzvah party nearly a year after the event being celebrated. There’s a big difference between a few weeks and nearly a year for no apparent reason (there wasn’t any geographic separation nor was there a wedding already planned and someone needed health insurance.) At that point, it looks like you wanted to throw a bigger party than you could afford at the time of the event e **ven sven** > [@](#): > > I think relatively few couples actually go to the courthouse on the same day they have the big to-do Most people I know don’t actually have the ceremony at the courthouse- they get a license a few days before and arrange for an officiant to perform the ceremony on the same day as the big to-do. Although I’ve also seen huge bridal parties leaving the courthouse in limos on their way to the party. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/44 "2014-09-26T19:37:11Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > First off, your issue is not the wedding. It’s with PS. You are clearly resentful of him-- of having bailed him out, of his lifestyle, of his moving, and of his perceived lack of respect for your values. Some of this sounds like typical step-parent tension; some of it is just a personality clash. In either case, he’s family, you can’t turn back the clock and take away the cash you’ve given him, and he’s not going to suddenly see the light and drag his Turkish wife back to Podunk to settle into a life as an insurance salesman (or whatever you think would have been smarter). > > Your role here is to be the bigger man, and either accept him how he is, or resolve grit your teeth and bear it for the sake of family cohesion. It’s not helpful to walk around with a big chip on your shoulder for something that is never going to be resolved. You don’t like the kid. He doesn’t seem to have a great relationship with you. That’s fine, you are all adults, but you have to find a way to live with it without being pissed off all the time. You aren’t going to win this fight, so how are you going to keep the family functional? > > As for the wedding: Yes, he should have told you about filing the legal paperwork. But this is a sin of degrees- I think relatively few couples actually go to the courthouse on the same day they have the big to-do, either out of pure logistics or out of practical benefits (in my case, it was health insurance) that come from getting legally married sooner rather than later. A wedding is a public solemnization and celebration of a union, not a magic transformation contingent on a particular piece of paper being sent to the courthouse. It’s perfectly valid, and extremely normal, to celebrate your wedding before or after the change in the legal status, and these weddings are not “shams” or “fakes” (and it reflects poorly on you for using such incendiary and unfair language—you are smearing a lot of people’s weddings here). > > Anyway, either be the bigger man and swallow your resentment, or resolve to stay out of this fight and let your wife manage family relationships with PS. > > (Eta, just read your last comment. Seems that you’ve gained some perspective, so I could have probably toned down my reply.) You know, sometimes an immature person is just…immature. The son should’ve been more clear. No need to read more that that into it given the situation as described. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/45 "2014-09-26T19:42:55Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > these weddings are not “shams” or “fakes” They are when you lie about it. > [@](#): > > (and it reflects poorly on you for using such incendiary and unfair language—you are smearing a lot of people’s weddings here). No it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/46 "2014-09-26T19:49:35Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Prudence may be overrated. If your disapproval is that obvious on something so completely subjective, can you really be surprised it displeases him? > > That, IMHO, was fairly douchy and immature. But it sounds like he’s learned to manipulate people and situations to get what he wants, and ethical considerations aside, it seems effective. You can’t really expect someone to give up on something that actually works. On some level, the fact he seems to perceive that you are disappointed with him gives him nothing to lose, emotionally. You don’t support his choices when he’s honest, so why would he be honest? > > I have some parasitic, manipulative, and dishonest members in my extended family. I have nothing to do with them, and they understand (because I explained it) that this is because I have no intention to be exposed to their futile attempts to manipulate me. I love 'em, I worry about them, but I will not be their patsy. > > YMMV. Dude, I have supported his choices, emotionally, financially, and through networking and advice, in every way I could think of. If you think what he has been doing has been effective, I don’t think you are looking at the larger picture. Kinda like Prodigal. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/47 "2014-09-26T19:55:17Z")
I just realized that I may have contributed to some people’s misunderstanding about how I feel about Prodigal moving away by the pseudonym I chose. Prodigal doesn’t mean someone who moves away, he means someone who spends foolishly. I have no illusions about the prospects for young educated people in my adopted home. I expected him to leave. I also hoped he would maker wiser decisions, and I have helped him when he has not. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/48 "2014-09-26T20:19:20Z")
All weddings that go above a quick ceremony in front of a judge are for show, meaning they are a celebration for friends and family. Every reception ever given is basically so everyone can get together and be happy for the new couple. His was no different, and I’m not sure why so many people are bothered by it. I’ve known people who, for various reasons, have had to make the deed official at some point either before or after the big ceremony. Not a big deal at all. ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/49 "2014-09-26T20:23:48Z")
Just because you support somebody financially, emotionally, etc, doesn’t mean that your disapproval isn’t palpable. You continually call certain actions of his foolish, and that’s disapproval. Whether you give him money or lend him an ear after the fact is a separate matter entirely. They don’t register as a plus or minus on the same scale, they’re on separate scales, and some people value the approval much more than the support. That being said, if prodigal is unhappy with the amount of approval he is getting, he should stop readily accepting his “consolation” support and learn to be more self-sufficient. Then again, free money…quite a draw. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/50 "2014-09-26T20:30:12Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > All weddings that go above a quick ceremony in front of a judge are for show, meaning they are a celebration for friends and family. Every reception ever given is basically so everyone can get together and be happy for the new couple. His was no different, and I’m not sure why so many people are bothered by it. I’ve known people who, for various reasons, have had to make the deed official at some point either before or after the big ceremony. Not a big deal at all. It’s the lying that is the problem. If people want to wait a year between legal marriage and party, that’s fine as long as they’re upfront about their status. But if people feel the need to tell lie upon lie as if it’s a Three’s Company episode, that shows massive disrespect for their guests. On some level they clearly know that a fake wedding isn’t as big a draw, otherwise why would it occur to them to lie about it? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/51 "2014-09-26T20:33:39Z")
I’m not sure I’d call it a lie. Everyone came to a wedding, even if the date that was recorded with the state is different. Wedding ceremonies existed long before the state got involved in them. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/52 "2014-09-26T20:44:13Z")
> [@Macca26](#): > > Just because you support somebody financially, emotionally, etc, doesn’t mean that your disapproval isn’t palpable. You continually call certain actions of his foolish, and that’s disapproval. Whether you give him money or lend him an ear after the fact is a separate matter entirely. They don’t register as a plus or minus on the same scale, they’re on separate scales, and some people value the approval much more than the support. > > That being said, if prodigal is unhappy with the amount of approval he is getting, he should stop readily accepting his “consolation” support and learn to be more self-sufficient. Then again, free money…quite a draw. I used the adverbial form of foolish once in this thread, part of definition of prodigal. So I don’t know where the continually comes from. My primary venue for whatever disapproval I have felt has been this thread. My interaction with him about the various decisons he has made that I categorize here, not to him, as terrible, has been to offer advice about how I think things are going to work out. Based on my experience and what he has offered in the way of facts, I have offered advice as disapproving and unhelpful as “I think you would be better off to postpone the move to NYC until you have a little bit more money saved; what you have won’t last three months.” ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/53 "2014-09-26T20:46:44Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I’m not sure I’d call it a lie. Everyone came to a wedding, even if the date that was recorded with the state is different. Wedding ceremonies existed long before the state got involved in them. Nice post/user name combo. He didn’t lie to his friends, but he lied to us. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/54 "2014-09-26T20:55:08Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I’m not sure I’d call it a lie. Everyone came to a wedding, even if the date that was recorded with the state is different. Wedding ceremonies existed long before the state got involved in them. I get your point, but in the U.S. and most other western cultures there is a reasonable expectation by guests that a wedding is a legally binding ceremony involving an officiant. Otherwise, you’re basically just watching people cynically play dress-up so that they can receive attention and gifts. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/55 "2014-09-26T20:55:17Z")
If someone called my wedding “fake”, just because it wasn’t the official state sanctioned event, I’d be pretty pissed. Nobody was present (other than the 2 witnesses) when my wife and I signed the marriage certificate in the back of the church, after the ceremony. That’s not why the guests are there and has nothing to do with the reception. Anyway, it’s obvious you aren’t looking for opinions on this matter. You’re only looking for reinforcements and the opportunity to make childish potshots. Your stepson becomes more sympathetic as this thread progresses. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/56 "2014-09-26T21:01:46Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > If someone called my wedding “fake”, just because it wasn’t the official state sanctioned event, I’d be pretty pissed. Nobody was present (other than the 2 witnesses) when my wife and I signed the marriage certificate in the back of the church, after the ceremony. That’s not why the guests are there and has nothing to do with the reception. > > Anyway, it’s obvious you aren’t looking for opinions on this matter. You’re only looking for reinforcements and the opportunity to make childish potshots. Your stepson becomes more sympathetic as this thread progresses. My wedding happened just as you describe. This whole thing, to me and my wife, was about being deceived. There is a huge difference between signing a marriage certificate five minutes after the officiant pronounces the marriage, and getting married and not telling anyone and sending out invitations to a wedding to occur eleven months later. I think you know that. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/57 "2014-09-26T21:05:17Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > If someone called my wedding “fake”, just because it wasn’t the official state sanctioned event, I’d be pretty pissed. Nobody was present (other than the 2 witnesses) when my wife and I signed the marriage certificate in the back of the church, after the ceremony. THAT sounds like basically the standard way to do it. Nobody’s quibbling over the exact moment the certificate gets signed on the same day as the ceremony. The problem arises when the ceremony occurs weeks, months or years after the legal wedding. ETA - Crotalus beat me to it! ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/58 "2014-09-26T21:07:20Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > My wedding happened just as you describe. This whole thing, to me and my wife, was about being deceived. There is a huge difference between signing a marriage certificate five minutes after the officiant pronounces the marriage, and getting married and not telling anyone and sending out invitations to a wedding to occur eleven months later. I think you know that. My values tell me that a wedding ceremony is what it is separate from any papers signed. It’s there to celebrate with the people you want to be happy with. I don’t think there is a big difference between having your ceremony 5 days or 5 months after you signed your papers as long as the appropriate feeling of celebrating with others is still there. As an additional example, if someone said they’re taking their honeymoon 5 years after they were married, I would not call that a lie. If they are in love and this vacation is for them to privately celebrate their love for each other, it’s a honeymoon. It has nothing to do with timeframes. If a guy graduates college, goes on a trip to India, and 4 months later comes back and wants to have his graduation party, it’s still a graduation party because it’s in celebration of his graduation. Those are my values. I just have to ask though, since I’m already being a bother I may as well continue: do you just give him advice unsolicited, or does he explicitly ask for your advice? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/59 "2014-09-26T21:10:16Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > It’s the lying that is the problem. If people want to wait a year between legal marriage and party, that’s fine as long as they’re upfront about their status. No, they don’t need to let the world know. I don’t think it’s really relevant to the wedding, it’s a personal thing. I know several people who’ve had to get married for immigration purposes and they are under no obligation to share that with the world before their public ceremony. BUT, if they’re asking you to pay for it I think you have a right to know. That’s a different kettle of fish and at that point you need to be above board about everything. Other guests don’t have a right to know, but the hosts do. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/60 "2014-09-26T21:13:26Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > THAT sounds like basically the standard way to do it. Nobody’s quibbling over the exact moment the certificate gets signed on the same day as the ceremony. The problem arises when the ceremony occurs weeks, months or years after the legal wedding. > > ETA - Crotalus beat me to it! What is the problem, for anyone not looking for a fight? This is honestly one of the lamest complaints I can think of. You went to exactly what you thought you were going to. The point of the service, and your role in it, never changed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639.md?page=4)