# How would you feel about being a prop at fake wedding? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 26, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639 "2014-09-26T15:04:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/161 "2014-09-28T22:44:36Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I better let the gay guy whose wedding I attended 10 years ago in IL know that the Internet says he is a liar. That’s not the situation here. Jeez. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/162 "2014-09-29T00:44:50Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Busybodies can benefit from a healthy dose of MYOB and STFU. How is it being a busybody when he’s coming to you for advice and money? “Hey, should I move out on my girlfriend?” is not really the same thing as “Hey, should I move out on my wife?” Sure, a lot of the conversation is going to be the same, but there is that pesky piece of paper thing. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/163 "2014-09-29T02:26:59Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > If they consider the ceremony to be the start of their marriage, there is no lie. Good luck with that bit of wisdom in a court of law. The state and every other person on the planet, and any extra terrestrials passing by, understand the marriage occurred at the time they were legally sanctioned. This wasn’t a sin of omission, it was an outright lie. What’s worse is that this arrogant jerk rubbed their noses in it right after it took place. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/164 "2014-09-29T04:24:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Good luck with that bit of wisdom in a court of law. The state and every other person on the planet, and any extra terrestrials passing by, understand the marriage occurred at the time they were legally sanctioned. What does this have to do with anything? Some people celebrate their anniversary on the date of the paperwork, others on the date of the wedding. The paperwork is the state’s business, **as I already posted**. Sometimes that paperwork happens before the wedding, after, or never. It’s still a wedding if they want it to be one. > [@Irishman](#): > > How is it being a busybody when he’s coming to you for advice and money? “Hey, should I move out on my girlfriend?” is not really the same thing as “Hey, should I move out on my wife?” Sure, a lot of the conversation is going to be the same, but there is that pesky piece of paper thing. It is being a busybody when the OP feels he is owed personal information. People often ask for advice based on incomplete information. It affects the quality of the response, but you don’t come back angry if you find out the circumstances you imagined weren’t the case. > [@doreen](#): > > It sure is their prerogative to consider the second ceremony the real one. ( Because there is in fact a ceremony when you get married at the court house. Even if it’s limited to “do you want to marry him/her) But it’s not their prerogative to lead me to believe something that is not true ( that they are not legally married) , ask my advice about a situation in a way that avoids the truth (the possible break-up that would have in fact required a divorce), invite me into their business by asking me to contribute to the financing, let people know about the deception and then escape the consequences of that deception whether those consequences are hurt feelings, being seen as untrustworthy, a strained relationship, no further financial assistance whatever. My kid is perfectly free to say “MYOB” and STFU” to me about anything. But I am perfectly free to say “Get your hand out of my wallet” Of course you are free to say that. You can be one of those parents who decides the kids aren’t getting married the right way, or he isn’t marrying the right person, or he’s bad because he wants a non-religious ceremony, and you can show them by withdrawing the money that you had been willing to provide. Asking your advice entitles you to nothing. Asking you to chip in for the wedding costs entitles you to nothing. > [@doreen](#): > > Although to be perfectly honest, I don’t understand why the kid who thinks I should MYOB and STFU is inviting me to the wedding anyway, if I’m such a busybody. Maybe he thinks you would like to be there to celebrate their marriage, not to get in a huff about the legal particulars or about the lack of an asterisk on the wedding invitation. I realize now that you’re not the OP, so you’re just making up hypotheticals. Got this far, might as well continue… > [@doreen](#): > > Oh , and the gay couple 10 years ago- different situation completely. They didn’t and couldn’t get legally married 10 years ago, so there was no lie. They could have beautiful ceremonies in front of their families and friends that had no legal effect and everyone knew there was no legal effect. You would think people would know they weren’t legally married, wouldn’t you? I did too. I was wrong. And yes, they got legally married when they moved out of state. That’s not when they celebrate their anniversary. And they didn’t feel the need to have a wedding then, because they’d already gotten married. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/165 "2014-09-29T11:01:56Z")
Thanks again to all for your responses. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/166 "2014-09-29T11:07:30Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > Thanks again to all for your responses. Stop bugging us, Mr. Busybody, we don’t have to tell you anything. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/167 "2014-09-29T11:57:36Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > Stop bugging us, Mr. Busybody, we don’t have to tell you anything. You’re right, I forgot. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/168 "2014-09-29T12:22:21Z")
If the kid didn’t think he was doing something underhanded, he wouldn’t have confessed afterwards, as there would be nothing to confess to. I don’t know why people are going out of their way to make it not a lie. Did someone feel deceived? Yes. Was this deception intentional? Seeing as he did it so his mother would come, yes. That makes it a lie. Did this lie get people to spend money they otherwise would not have? Yes. That makes it a scam. What he thinks about the wedding is completely immaterial. Let’s try this: I make $600 a month. My rent is around $500. I often wind up going hungry because I can’t afford food. My air conditioner is completely busted. My poor doggies got sick from the heat and stuff. Would you please contribute money to help me? Nothing I just said is untrue. And my personal information is private, so I don’t have to share anything else. But if I got money from that, it would be a scam. Why? Because I live with people who make a total of around $2000 a month. While I do go hungry, it’s a short time until they can buy me more. My air conditioner is busted–that’s why we have a window one instead. My dogs got sick because of a weird flea infection, and a $6 antiflea medications fixed it. Despite everything being true, I was still lying. And since I was trying to get money from people who probably wouldn’t pay if they knew the whole story, it was a scam. And if I didn’t think there was anything wrong with it, I would have had no reason to come out and give the real story. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/169 "2014-09-29T13:30:00Z")
**BigT** , this post is not directed at you, but was triggered by something you said that made me want to clarify a couple of things. My wife (Prodigal’s mother) and I always intended to attend the wedding. When it was in doubt whether a wedding would happen at all, we booked a vacation in California for that time and hoped for a wedding. We also always intended to pay for a portion of the celebration, actually a fixed amount that matched what we had contributed to the weddings of our other children. The idea that the bride’s mother needed an unmarried couple actually getting married to justify a trip to the USA is speculation on my part, an attempt to come up with a reason for the lack of candor from Prodigal. The part about the brothers and father of the groom not attending was explicit and argued about. It stemmed from some bad blood between Prodigal and his brothers and father and the expense and logistical difficulties of attending. Prodigal’s relations with his male blood relatives are fraught with baggage. He and I get along great by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/170 "2014-09-29T13:46:23Z")
Consider this 1 more vote for those who think people can celebrate their commitment to each other however they want. There’s an issue about the deceit, though. If it was just the one issue about a secret marriage and then a public one, I wouldn’t give it a second thought. People’s lives are complicated enough; there’s no point in us adding to it by introducing more complexities with our expectations. I’d assume there were good reasons, many of which might not be appropriate to voice at this time (or perhaps ever). But there’s an issue of repeated deceit, and that’s troublesome. But let me chime in with the fact that I got really good at lying to my parents (both lawyers, so I was well-trained!) I think I was in my 30’s when I got caught in a lie, and realized how utterly stupid it was for me to hide aspects of my life that my parents disagreed with by lying: the resulting loss of respect and trustfulness was far worse than the transgressions I hid. I learned my lesson and I’m pretty sure I haven’t lied to them once since then (I’m 57). It was a good lesson to learn, and I’m not proud that it took so long. My suggestion would be to support PS fully in the wedding and the marriage, even if you think it’s a bad idea. Make your objections clear if you want to, but then give your blessing and move on; this is family. But be sure to clue PS in that deceit has a very great cost, one he should consider carefully before resorting to it next time. > [@even\_sven](#): > > And I assume non-virgin brides should opt for a tasteful blue? 2 points, despite the historical caveat. (And regardless of the caveat, that’s a commonly recognized symbol, even if it’s not commonly significant in point of fact.) My point is we’re fools to impose our attitudes about ceremonies on others. Utter fools. We get no benefit from this, but it costs us and those we love. One lives a far richer life supporting others in what they choose to do than in quibbling about what color the linens should be, or when the certificate is signed. Well, I guess some folks enrich their lives by criticizing others. Joan Rivers made a career of it, which is why I generally adopted the policy to change the channel whenever I see her. > [@Emiliana](#): > > Lot of defensiveness in this thread. I don’t care if people separate the legal and the ceremonial in their marriages/weddings. But if my son consistently lied to me about his relationship while inviting me into it as a source of support and financing, I’d be well and truly pissed off. Right. Pissed off is a natural reaction. But the more important consequence is the loss of trust, which is important to convey. Then let PS decide whether trust is important or not in the future. For example, I tend not to give money to people who lie to me, even close relatives, because I can’t tell whether the reasons were valid. > [@Ruken](#): > > If the couple wants to consider the ceremony to be the real start of their marriage, that’s their prerogative and none of the family’s business. I agree, but again, there’s a cost to deceit. As above, if this was the only case, it shouldn’t be an issue at all. > [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > While you’re at it, tell him not to bother getting gay marriage legalized since “signing the legal papers” is such a non-important, piddling little detail. And don’t forget to tell anyone else who eloped (Romeo and Juliet style) that their marriage just ain’t the real thing. Feel free to apply your principles to your own life. It’s your perogative. Feel free to try to apply them to others as well, and see what it gets you. Especially the relatively arbitrary ones, without any ethical basis, just a matter of tradition. (Note that I’m committing the same error that I’m accusing you of. See how much fun it is, and how much I benefit from it?) ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/171 "2014-09-29T13:56:04Z")
**LC Strawhouse** : Missed the edit window. My response is clearly non-sequitur to this comment of yours. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/172 "2014-09-29T13:56:58Z")
> [@Haunted\_Pasta](#): > > I guess it depends on how much the ceremonial part matters to you. To a lot of people, that’s the “real” part of the wedding- those people would say that what you attended and helped to finance wasn’t “fake” at all. Really, people go to wedding ceremonies for that part- no one’s actually going because they just can’t wait to see the happy couple change their legal status. > . That. This marriage you attented was very real in my book. Certainly, he could have told you that technically he was already married, but it certainly wasn’t a “fake” marriage, and you weren’t a “prop”, especially since apparently they organized it so that family members (on both sides) would attend. So, your presence was in fact the point of the ceremony. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/173 "2014-09-29T14:13:20Z")
By the way, I agree that P lied and shouldn’t have, but I guess he thought something like “my relatives are so narrow-minded that if I tell them that we already signed the papers for practical reasons, they won’t want to attend our marriage ceremony” And when I think of it, one of my brothers did exactly the same as Prodigal. When the ceremony took place, they had been married legally for a while, like Prodigal for very practical reasons, and they hide this fact to a part of her family (not parents and siblings, though. I remember her grandmother) who, being very religious, would have reacted badly (even though they knew they had lived together unmarried for years…go figure). We (close relatives who had been present a bit before the ceremony) were told to say, if asked, that the civil ceremony had taken place the day before. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/174 "2014-09-29T17:33:39Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Your concern is noted. I suspect you may be projecting a bit of “Say Yes to the Dress” here. I’m at an age where I am going to 5-6 weddings a year, and relatively few of them are big princess style productions. It’s completely possible to have a sweet, fun, celebratory get-together of people who are genuinely happy for the couple whatever their particular circumstances. Indeed, I think most people would rather go to something like that than a picture-perfect Bridezilla-style “traditional” wedding. This is off-topic, but this sort of thing is the reason why I wondered if it was odd that I have only been to two weddings in my life, including my brother’s, not that I mind, as such. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/175 "2014-09-29T19:07:03Z")
I guess I really don’t understand why the OP is so upset. They got engaged, signed the legal paperwork and had a ceremony/celebration with their families (in that order). As near as I can tell, they love each other and are committed to each other and want to have a real marriage, so what’s the issue? Quite a few couples don’t do the legal paperwork at the ceremony, for a variety of reasons: sometimes there are just logistical issues that make it impossible or difficult at the ceremony, sometimes outside deadlines make the legal paperwork necessary at a different time than the ceremony (as in this case), or maybe just the couple don’t feel like spending time on legal paperwork when it takes them away from their families and friends celebrating with them. Seriously, would the OP still be upset if they’d gone to the courthouse with their paperwork two days before the wedding ceremony? Would the marriage then be a sham? Would the OP still feel like a ‘prop’ rather than, I don’t know, a parent celebrating a life event with their child? Maybe this is another way to put it. Would the OP have preferred that the couple had told everyone they got married back in the spring, and refused to have any kind of celebration with their families because that would be a sham? Really? You’d seriously prefer not to celebrate your son’s marriage with him? And, I can’t help but notice that the OP’s wife’s first husband is evidently still alive. If they want to take a very traditional view of wedding ceremonies, they might have to wonder about whether their marriage is a sham; after all ‘until death to us part’ was traditionally taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/176 "2014-09-29T22:07:09Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Your concern is noted. I suspect you may be projecting a bit of “Say Yes to the Dress” here. I’m at an age where I am going to 5-6 weddings a year, and relatively few of them are big princess style productions. It’s completely possible to have a sweet, fun, celebratory get-together of people who are genuinely happy for the couple whatever their particular circumstances. Indeed, I think most people would rather go to something like that than a picture-perfect Bridezilla-style “traditional” wedding. I suspect you’re projecting a bit yourself, frankly, given that I explicitly said people would be happy for you. But a lot of people who are planning a wedding, they don’t just want people to be happy for them–they want people to be excited for them. Unfortunately, when you’ve already been treating someone as married in every way, it’s just not all that exciting when they finally decide to throw a party to celebrate being married. Like I’ve said, I’ve seen a lot of hurt feelings over the subject over the years. That’s the reason people are speculating that the brothers and father in the OP’s situation wouldn’t have gone to the wedding if they’d known PS was already married. People will go to a lot more hassle and expense for “OMG, you’re getting MARRIED!!!” than they will for “Oh, y’all are getting around to having a party to celebrate being married, cool.” ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/177 "2014-09-29T22:09:56Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > All weddings that go above a quick ceremony in front of a judge are for show, meaning they are a celebration for friends and family. A religious ceremony is not for show; it’s to fulfill the sacrament in a lawful way in whatever tradition or denomination it is taking place in. ---
**Author:** ![Delayed\_Reflex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/delayed_reflex/32/3172_2.png) [@Delayed\_Reflex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delayed_Reflex)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639/178 "2014-09-29T22:21:49Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > I guess I really don’t understand why the OP is so upset. They got engaged, signed the legal paperwork and had a ceremony/celebration with their families (in that order). As near as I can tell, they love each other and are committed to each other and want to have a real marriage, so what’s the issue? > Quite a few couples don’t do the legal paperwork at the ceremony, for a variety of reasons: sometimes there are just logistical issues that make it impossible or difficult at the ceremony, sometimes outside deadlines make the legal paperwork necessary at a different time than the ceremony (as in this case), or maybe just the couple don’t feel like spending time on legal paperwork when it takes them away from their families and friends celebrating with them. > > Seriously, would the OP still be upset if they’d gone to the courthouse with their paperwork two days before the wedding ceremony? Would the marriage then be a sham? Would the OP still feel like a ‘prop’ rather than, I don’t know, a parent celebrating a life event with their child? > > Maybe this is another way to put it. Would the OP have preferred that the couple had told everyone they got married back in the spring, and refused to have any kind of celebration with their families because that would be a sham? Really? You’d seriously prefer not to celebrate your son’s marriage with him? It seems that different people seem to place different amounts of value on the “legal paperwork” part of a marriage. Is there no difference between an engaged couple and a legally married couple in your mind? Is there no difference between calling off a wedding and getting a divorce? My interpretation in reading this thread is that the OP feels that there IS some significance to the “legal paperwork” part of the marriage, and that it is important enough of a detail to mention to your family, the family who you are asking to help out with your wedding. It seems clear to me that the OP has no problem with there being a gap in time between the legal paperwork and wedding ceremonies so much, rather the OP is upset that he was not even informed of the legal paperwork having been done. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-being-a-prop-at-fake-wedding/699639.md?page=8)