# How would you feel about this gym situation - one for men especially? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 20, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718 "2013-08-20T15:15:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/61 "2013-08-20T20:28:00Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > If so, I thing that’s a very significant details. In this case, the gym was certainly not acting to “protect” the exerciser from the roving eyes of a dozen toddlers (or even from the roving eyes of their moms)? > > Here’s a thought: Instead of linking the letter, can you quote it here, redacting any personally identifying details? (Was it a long letter?) Did the letter appear to be from the exerciser himself, or from some third party? (Sorry, you might have mentioned that but I missed it and the “Topic Review” posts, as I type this, don’t go all the way back.) > > And just how toddly were these toddlers? Could it be that some mothers wanted to breast-feed their kids, away from the presumedly skeevy eyes of a drooling lecher? (If so, I would have no sympathy for those moms. I think public breast-feeding is, or ought to be, a perfectly cromulent activity, but it can’t be had both ways: Women who wish to breast-feed publicly need to accept that they will be seen publicly.) From the exerciser itself. It’s a coupla paragraphs, but it would be easy to Google with quotes and find the whole thing; check your PMs, t’will hopefully be illuminating. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/62 "2013-08-20T20:28:27Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > No it’s not really creepy. But I can sort of understand why parents would consider it odd for an adult man to hang around a park watching kids. A woman, no not creepy at all. Sure it’s a bit unfair, but child molesters are usually male. Oh well. Yeah. And everyone knows males are usually child molesters too. Right. Got it. ETA: BTW: > [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > The ticket the cops write is for not obeying park signage, and the playground signs say adults without children are not allowed in the playground area. Adults are allowed in the parks, but not the enclosed playground area unless you bring a child. This is (theoretically at least) possible in California too. There is a general public law that says you have to obey all signage that any public authority places. Would you believe that it’s part of the Vehicle Code? ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/63 "2013-08-20T20:37:32Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Yeah. And everyone knows males are usually child molesters too. Right. Got it. > > ETA: > > BTW: > This is (theoretically at least) possible in California too. There is a general public law that says you have to obey all signage that any public authority places. Would you believe that it’s part of the Vehicle Code? Of course not all men are child molesters. But all child molesters are men (mostly, right?). Men getting all up in arms over this is stupid. Just don’t be a creepy bastard and you’ll be just fine. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/64 "2013-08-20T20:41:34Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > If the blinds are on the _inside_, then it can’t be argued that the gym is trying to protect the guy from being watched by the kids. If he was bothered by that, he could darn well have closed the blinds himself. In this case, he might well assume that the gym is “protecting” the kids from a presumed leering creepo. Sure it can. He was on an exercylce. On many of those if you stop pedaling, the program, counter, etc. stops and resets. If you don’t wish that to happen, you can’t get off it and shut the blinds. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/65 "2013-08-20T20:46:54Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > From the exerciser itself. It’s a coupla paragraphs, but it would be easy to Google with quotes and find the whole thing; check your PMs, t’will hopefully be illuminating. Okay, I read the letter. I am still sympathetic to the letter writer on the general principle that it’s deeply offensive that all males are by default assumed to be pedophiles (which he believes is happening here), although I’m just a little bit less sympathetic now. From his tone, he sounds just a bit difficult to take very seriously. Perhaps **Mr. Kobayashi** would care to post a few brief excerpts? ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/66 "2013-08-20T20:49:25Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Of course not all men are child molesters. But all child molesters are men (mostly, right?). Men getting all up in arms over this is stupid. Just don’t be a creepy bastard and you’ll be just fine. I don’t think that is the general feeling among a lot of men. There is a long thread around here from a while ago that discussed how men can be treated even if they are doing right and noble things (e.g. helping a lost child). A lot of guys would help, but with the feeling of being judged for ill-intent or perhaps even being subject to legal risk. I think that is the core of the OP question - men do not want to be judged that way. I cannot find that thread - can anyone help? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/67 "2013-08-20T20:53:55Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Sure it can. He was on an exercylce. On many of those if you stop pedaling, the program, counter, etc. stops and resets. If you don’t wish that to happen, you can’t get off it and shut the blinds. Okay, ignorance fought on that point. (I’ve never used those mochines.) But if they had to enter the room to close the blinds (or even if they didn’t), and they were ostensibly doing so to protect _his_ privacy, then they certainly shoulda/coulda/woulda asked him first if he wanted the blinds shut. OTOH, with blinds on the outside, they might have felt it was easier to just shut them without asking. I think it’s fairly clear they _probably_ closed the blinds at the behest of one or more moms. He may be over-reacting, but in principle he’s right. Parents who take their kids to places where they might be seen by \<_gasp!_\> adult males do a profound insult by presuming that any adult males who might see those kids might be pervy. Is this really such a problem? What will it lead to? Is there a slippery slope here? Well, witness those guys who got cited for playing chess near kids. That’s where this kind of attitude leads. (Yeah, they technically got cited for ignoring posted rules. Those rules are there for the specific purpose of arresting adults who play chess near kids.) ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/68 "2013-08-20T20:55:45Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > I don’t think that is the general feeling among a lot of men. There is a long thread around here from a while ago that discussed how men can be treated even if they are doing right and noble things (e.g. helping a lost child). A lot of guys would help, but with the feeling of being judged for ill-intent or perhaps even being subject to legal risk. I think that is the core of the OP question - men do not want to be judged that way. > > I cannot find that thread - can anyone help? I remember it and and I just don’t believe it to be the case. I think the guys who complain about this are looking for a battle, basically. If you are a nice, respectful guy you will be treated like one. By men and women alike. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/69 "2013-08-20T20:58:16Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > I don’t think that is the general feeling among a lot of men. There is a long thread around here from a while ago that discussed how men can be treated even if they are doing right and noble things (e.g. helping a lost child). A lot of guys would help, but with the feeling of being judged for ill-intent or perhaps even being subject to legal risk. I think that is the core of the OP question - men do not want to be judged that way. > > I cannot find that thread - can anyone help? I think [this may be the thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=650028) you are thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/70 "2013-08-20T21:05:57Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > [Police crack down on chess players.](http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/17/police-step-away-from-the-chess-table/?_r=0) > [@Kaio](#): > > why are you putting adult activities behind the kids only playground wall if you don’t want adults there? That’s dumb. > [@delphica](#): > > Plenty of parks have the chess boards out in the park-at-large, so this isn’t an issue in every park…I will also note that this is enforced very, very unevenly Let me clue you guys in to the dark side of the chess world. In public parks, chess boards are a venue for drug sales. It’s one of the rare places in public where a group of strangers can meet, rapidly move their hands back and forth toward each other, and separate while still looking completely normal. That’s why it’s unevenly enforced. If you’re not selling drugs, the cops have no reason to scare you away, and I think we can assume they _know_ whether you’re there to play the royal game or the Colombian game. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/71 "2013-08-20T21:09:01Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I think [this may be the thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=650028) you are thinking of. That’s the one. Thx. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/72 "2013-08-20T21:22:43Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This moves beyond overreaction and into creepy. I can see a guy rolling his eyes over this and telling it as a snarky anecdote to friends, and that’s fine. Getting genuinely upset is an overreaction. Fighting for your right to watch toddlers with their moms? Creepy and awful. This guy is a creepy, awful person. There’s a lot of information left out, did he talk to the gym staff as to why they lowered the blinds ? Lowering the blinds for his sake makes sense, and also to ensure to make sure the kids aren’t distracted. If that’s the case the gym staff should of came over and told him before. In this day and age of every man is a potential pedo it would of been an appropriate thing for them to do for their customer. But they didn’t. Talk of legal action means there’s a lot of details being left out here, you don’t know, we don’t know. But you went right to the “he wants to stare at kids must be a pedo” maybe that’s not the case, maybe he’ suing because they didn’t want him staring at kids after all. We don’t know the details, maybe a woman got on a bike a couple of stations down, and they didn’t lower the blinds for her. If that’s the case I hope he sues their asses off. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/73 "2013-08-20T21:26:28Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Let me clue you guys in to the dark side of the chess world. In public parks, chess boards are a venue for drug sales. It’s one of the rare places in public where a group of strangers can meet, rapidly move their hands back and forth toward each other, and separate while still looking completely normal. > > That’s why it’s unevenly enforced. If you’re not selling drugs, the cops have no reason to scare you away, and I think we can assume they _know_ whether you’re there to play the royal game or the Colombian game. Oh come on. Next thing you’ll be telling me that there’s some nefarious purpose behind the dozen or so cars I see every morning at 7:30 in the forrest preserve parking lot. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/74 "2013-08-20T21:28:28Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Let me clue you guys in to the dark side of the chess world. In public parks, chess boards are a venue for drug sales. It’s one of the rare places in public where a group of strangers can meet, rapidly move their hands back and forth toward each other, and separate while still looking completely normal. > > That’s why it’s unevenly enforced. If you’re not selling drugs, the cops have no reason to scare you away, and I think we can assume they _know_ whether you’re there to play the royal game or the Colombian game. Oh yes, I agree with this. And that’s also part of the variety culture of NYC parks. There are lots of parks where the chess tables are Serious Chess Business (and/or chess hustling). There are others where they’re Drug Dealer Central. I would say which kind of chess tables you have are generally known by the local precinct, and any park goers who are even remotely savvy. ---
**Author:** ![SweetiePotato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@SweetiePotato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SweetiePotato)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/75 "2013-08-20T21:41:58Z")
Uh, I think it’s much more likely that the WOMEN were uncomfortable doing a mommy-and-me gym class in front of anyone else, especially male. It’s why places like Curves exist. Young moms may be super self-conscious about their bodies in front of men, which is why they take a class specifically for toddlers and other moms. If I went to a women’s only gym class, and realized it was taking place RIGHT in front of a window with some guy on a treadmill or a bike, it might make me feel a little uncomfortable too. Whether or not I have a kid with me. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/76 "2013-08-20T21:53:03Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > If so, I thing that’s a very significant details. In this case, the gym was certainly not acting to “protect” the exerciser from the roving eyes of a dozen toddlers (or even from the roving eyes of their moms)? I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that it was about “protection” of anyone, at all. Little kids get distracted easily. If you want to have a prayer of getting them to focus, you need to hide or otherwise get rid of outside distractions. Otherwise you get kids blowing fish on the window at “workout guy” instead of doing whatever gym activity they’re supposed to be doing with mom. The gym staff certainly could have said as much when they went to close the blinds, but it’s quite possible it didn’t occur to them that it could be misinterpreted as anything other than “let’s not have these gym patrons distract each other.” ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/77 "2013-08-20T22:48:59Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Let me clue you guys in to the dark side of the chess world. In public parks, chess boards are a venue for drug sales. It’s one of the rare places in public where a group of strangers can meet, rapidly move their hands back and forth toward each other, and separate while still looking completely normal. > > That’s why it’s unevenly enforced. If you’re not selling drugs, the cops have no reason to scare you away, and I think we can assume they _know_ whether you’re there to play the royal game or the Colombian game. So, why wouldn’t the cops just say, “We’ve arrested these people because we are enforcing our laws against trafficking in controlled substances in areas where children are likely to congregate,” a position that is super popular, versus “We don’t want childless men, even those merely playing chess at tables we’ve installed as playground fixtures, hanging out at public playgrounds,” which is a rather less popular position? I mean, I don’t doubt that there’s some truth to you description of sales in contraband being conducted under the cover of a super-dull board game. But the cops don’t really need to be abashed about explaining that’s what they’re up to, and they certainly don’t need to come up with a more problematic alibi. It’s not like there’s a great deal of public enthusiasm for playground drug dealers. ---
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/78 "2013-08-20T22:49:03Z")
Any chance he was wearing baggy shorts and perhaps considering the angle, he was revealing a little bit more of what is under his shorts than he realized? Not a full dangle, but perhaps an up-shorts view that the mommies didn’t like? At Physical Therapy the other day, one of the older women on the exercise bike was showing perhaps a bit more than she would be comfortable knowing she was showing. We all just averted our eyes. it wasn’t graphic, but a bit immodest. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/79 "2013-08-20T23:29:28Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > I mean, I don’t doubt that there’s some truth to you description of sales in contraband being conducted under the cover of a super-dull board game. But the cops don’t really need to be abashed about explaining that’s what they’re up to, and they certainly don’t need to come up with a more problematic alibi. It’s not like there’s a great deal of public enthusiasm for playground drug dealers. Also, they already have laws against drug dealing, so it would seem like a no-brainer to just enforce the existing laws rather than make up new ones that have the inconvenient side-effect of getting people who’ve done nothing wrong cited as if they had. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718/80 "2013-08-21T12:09:44Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Although I still say that having adult-only activities like the chess boards inside the kids-only playground is an incredibly dumb move What makes you think kids can’t play chess? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-about-this-gym-situation-one-for-men-especially/666718.md?page=5)