# How would you feel if YOUR marriage were nullified? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 20, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010 "2008-12-20T01:08:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/1 "2008-12-20T01:08:59Z")
I don’t know if this should be in IMHO or the Pit or where. Mods can move it if they want. Ken Starr rears his ugly head again, while his own marriage is free from outside threats. [Prop. 8 sponsors seek to nullify 18K gay marriages](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/12/19/state/n150241S64.DTL) > [@](#): > > The sponsors of Proposition 8 asked the California Supreme Court on Friday to nullify the marriages of the estimated 18,000 same-sex couples who exchanged vows before voters approved the ballot initiative that outlawed gay unions. > > The Yes on 8 campaign filed a brief arguing that because the new law holds that only marriages between a man and a woman are recognized or valid in California, the state can no longer recognize the existing same-sex unions. The document reveals for the first time that opponents of same-sex marriage will fight in court to undo those unions that already exist. > > “Proposition 8’s brevity is matched by its clarity. There are no conditional clauses, exceptions, exemptions or exclusions,” reads the brief co-written by **Kenneth Starr** , dean of Pepperdine University’s law school and the former independent counsel who investigated President Bill Clinton. > > The campaign submitted the document in response to three lawsuits seeking to invalidate Proposition 8, the constitutional amendment adopted last month that overruled the court’s decision in May that had legalized gay marriage in the nation’s most populous state. > > Both Attorney General Jerry Brown, whose office is scheduled to submit its own brief to the court Friday, and gay rights groups maintain that the gay marriage ban may not be applied retroactively. > > … Ah, but thank goodness Drew Peterson is free to [get married again](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/17/drew-peterson-engaged-to_n_151697.html). The “sanctity” of marriage is safe. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/2 "2008-12-20T01:11:37Z")
I was married from 1989 to 1993. If somebody could retroactively nullify my marriage, that would be awesome. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with these people? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/3 "2008-12-20T01:19:06Z")
10 or 20 years from now it will be an absolute embarrassment how gays were treated in the US. In Canada we’re probably now 10 or 20 years ahead. We’ve turned the corner and there’s no going back. You’ll get there shortly. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/4 "2008-12-20T02:24:01Z")
Promise? ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/5 "2008-12-20T02:29:25Z")
My marriage (in Oregon) was voided and I didn’t like it one bit. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/6 "2008-12-20T02:35:45Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with these people? It’s [not over yet](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/19/BA6514RNVU.DTL&type=politics&tsp=1). Maybe the bigots knew this was coming and that’s why they sent out their press release first. > [@](#): > > State Attorney General Jerry Brown, in a surprise turnabout, asked the state Supreme Court late today to overturn Proposition 8, saying the voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage violates basic rights guaranteed in the state Constitution. > > Brown, whose office requires him to defend state laws unless he cannot find reasonable legal grounds to do so, said after Prop. 8 passed Nov. 4 that he would support the initiative before the state’s high court. > > But in a lengthy filing late today, he argued that the measure was “inconsistent with the guarantees of individual liberty” in California’s governing charter. > > “Proposition 8 must be invalidated because the amendment process cannot be used to extinguish fundamental constitutional rights without compelling justification,” Brown said. > > **The authors of the state Constitution, he said, did not intend “to put a group’s right to enjoy liberty to a popular vote.”** > > Hours earlier, sponsors of Prop. 8 filed arguments asking the court to uphold the ballot measure, which passed with a 52 percent majority. Andrew Pugno, attorney for the Yes on 8 campaign, said he was disappointed at Brown’s stance. > > … **susan** , I’m sorry to hear that. The continued bigotry in this country is appalling. I agree with **Leaffan** , you WILL have equal rights one day, in the not-too-distant future. It should have happened by now, and the setbacks are discouraging, but it will happen. It can’t be stopped, just as civil rights and women’s rights couldn’t ultimately be stopped. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/7 "2008-12-20T18:14:53Z")
I think I might like it. When I got married I was not much aware of same-sex marriage issues, which were not in the news back then. In recent years it has bothered me that I got to have an official marriage that is denied to so many people on a purely demographic basis. If I had it to do over, I’d like to find out whether a hetero couple can have a “civil union” instead of a “marriage”. I don’t want the dirty privilege of “marriage”, now that I understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/8 "2008-12-20T20:37:39Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > 10 or 20 years from now it will be an absolute embarrassment how gays were treated in the US. In Canada we’re probably now 10 or 20 years ahead. We’ve turned the corner and there’s no going back. > > You’ll get there shortly. Well, if the Prop 8 voting had been restricted to voters under 30, I think it would have been overwhelmingly defeated (though I haven’t seen how the numeric breakdown). I imagine the next generation will look on this stuff the way we look on race-based miscegenation and segregation laws. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/9 "2008-12-20T20:50:06Z")
I was thinking about Prop8 this morning, and I’d be pretty pissed if my marriage was nullified. I’m thinking about starting a petition in CA to ban divorce or to nullify the marriages of those who have not procreated. I can’t decide which would be better/worse. ---
**Author:** ![hawksgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ed655f/32.png) [@hawksgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawksgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/10 "2008-12-20T21:19:01Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > Well, if the Prop 8 voting had been restricted to voters under 30, I think it would have been overwhelmingly defeated (though I haven’t seen how the numeric breakdown). Don’t be so sure. Despite being a “blue” state, there are long tracts of red in the center. I heard what middle and high schoolers around here were saying about this around election time, and it was not pretty. My little bro is positively anti-gay rights. despite not being as devout as my family would like, he still can’t think outside of that mindset (the Bible says it’s wrong) and thinks gays (or fags, as he refers to them) are wrong and gross. He’ll get to vote by the next presidential election. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/11 "2008-12-20T21:21:11Z")
I think things like this will eventually hurt the anti-gay crowd. Face facts, there’s a group of gay people and their supporters, there’s a group of anti-gay people, and there’s all the rest. The majority of people don’t really have a strong opinion one way or the other on issues like this. When a big vote comes up they can be swayed one way or the other but they’re still largely undecided. And something like this is the kind of thing that could push people away. Even somebody who sort of thinks two gay people shouldn’t get married might have a problem with the government telling a happily married couple that it’s breaking up their marriage. It’s such an unreasonable intrusion that it’s going to wake some people up to the injustice of it all. It’s the equivalent of watching some Alabama police officers sicking dogs on a crowd of black people. Even people who didn’t support equality saw that and thought “that’s not right.” ---
**Author:** ![Auntbeast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Auntbeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Auntbeast)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/12 "2008-12-20T21:23:10Z")
> [@hawksgirl](#): > > He’ll get to vote by the next presidential election. Hopefully, the years will be kind to his mind. There was a great graph on [graphjam.com](http://graphjam.com) about how gay marriage would impact me. It was awesome. As someone once wiser than I said, no reason gay people shouldn’t have to suffer like the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/13 "2008-12-20T21:32:50Z")
> [@Auntbeast](#): > > There was a great graph on [graphjam.com](http://graphjam.com) about how gay marriage would impact me. It was awesome. [This one!](http://graphjam.com/2008/11/19/song-chart-memes-consequences-of-gay-marriage/) ---
**Author:** ![Jeeves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@Jeeves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeeves)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/14 "2008-12-20T21:38:10Z")
Back in 2004, the first time my marriage was nullfied by the California Supreme Court, I wrote [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=270998](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=270998) this OP. Thats you how I still feel. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/15 "2008-12-20T22:16:54Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > 10 or 20 years from now it will be an absolute embarrassment how gays were treated in the US. In Canada we’re probably now 10 or 20 years ahead. Well, if my math is correct, it’s more than 5 years so far. Don’t think this can’t change REALLY fast - when stuff like this finally breaks it doesn’t take long. Hell, look at our experience. Just under three years ago we had the Prime Minister of the day, Paul Martin, suddenly (granted, in a moment of panic) saying he’d amend the Constitution - in a way that would actually ave been virtually impossible - to ensure gay marriage was protected. **The same guy had voted against gay marriage two years before.** In less than five years we went from most politicians upholding the “marriage is between a man and a woman” stance to most of them arguing the exact opposite. The leader of the _Conservative_ party set up a vote in Parliament to lose just to prevent the issue from coming up again. That is one hell of a fast turnaround. Don’t be too shocked if many U.S. states start legalizing gay marriage all of a sudden, and when they do it’ll cascade quickly. That said, it still fucking sucks for people whose marriages will be “nullified,” and I use quotation marks deliberately because as far as I’m concerned “nullifying” someone’s marriage on this basis is total horseshit. I invite gay couples to apply to move to Canada. We have lots of space and many job skills are in high demand. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/16 "2008-12-21T01:30:18Z")
Today is my 11th anniversary. If you nullify the marriage, do I have to give the present back? It sickens me that I get to have an 11th wedding anniversary and others don’t get to have a marriage at all. Why is empathy such a hard thing for Americans to get? ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/17 "2008-12-21T02:38:08Z")
**jsgoddess** , I think it stems from a lot of people still thinking gay is something you _do_, not something you _are_. Stupid, yes. For what it’s worth, here’s another straight person who thinks the whole prop 8 thing is despicable. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/18 "2008-12-21T06:48:28Z")
According to my husband’s church of birth (Catholic), our marriage doesn’t exist. I can tell you that that idea doesn’t impress me one little bit, so I can imagine that gay people don’t think much of theirs being nullified either. ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/19 "2008-12-21T07:02:47Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Today is my 11th anniversary. If you nullify the marriage, do I have to give the present back? > > It sickens me that I get to have an 11th wedding anniversary and others don’t get to have a marriage at all. > > Why is empathy such a hard thing for Americans to get? Just because the government nullifies your marriage legally doesn’t mean that it is nullified personally or morally. I’m not saying I support Proposition 8, but the actual marriage is just a piece of paper from the government giving you special legal rights and responsibilities, not the thing that defines the relationship. Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/20 "2008-12-21T07:09:59Z")
Yes, such as the right to visit my partner in the ER. Feeling married doesn’t get you squat when it comes to access, inheritance, and other legal issues. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010.md?page=2)