# How would you feel if YOUR marriage were nullified? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 20, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010 "2008-12-20T01:08:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/41 "2008-12-22T00:32:31Z")
No offense taken – it’s an extremely offensive attitude! And I most certainly _do not agree with it._☹ I will try to be more clear in the future. I didn’t choose to be the 95% straight that I am. I just…am. What or who I have sex with has nothing to do with that. I could have sex with a woman but it wouldn’t make me gay. I assume the same thing goes for gay folks; straight sex doesn’t make them straight any more than gay sex makes me gay. So the “it’s what you do not what you are” argument makes absolutely no sense to me. And even if it was true, I don’t understand _what the hell the problem would be._ ---
**Author:** ![Carnacki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Carnacki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnacki)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/42 "2008-12-22T01:06:32Z")
How’s this for Prop. 8 supposedly being in defense of marriage: Gender is, at times in the California Code, defined thus:"“Gender” means sex, and includes a person’s gender identity and gender related appearance and behavior whether or not stereotypically associated with the person’s assigned sex at birth." So if it’s decided that Prop. 8 is retroactive, does that mean that one party to a male-female marriage can somehow unilaterally nullify it (i.e., cancel the marriage without getting a divorce) by changing their appearance and claiming that their gender identity is the opposite of what it needs to be for the marriage to be legal? Or a slightly different question: if the California Constitution now defines marriage as between a male and female, mustn’t it also define male and female? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/43 "2008-12-22T01:59:54Z")
> [@](#): > > I could have sex with a woman but it wouldn’t make me gay. That’s true. I’ve had sex with women and it didn’t make me gay. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/44 "2008-12-22T02:22:20Z")
> [@whiterabbit](#): > > No offense taken – it’s an extremely offensive attitude! And I most certainly _do not agree with it._☹ I will try to be more clear in the future. > > … And even if it was true, I don’t understand _what the hell the problem would be._ Exactly. I understand the historical reasons to emphasize that homosexuality is an inherent characteristic, rather than a choice (that would be to keep out of jail, the nut-house, and/or hell), but I think it is time to just drop the whole discussion. It’s an unprofitable side-issue. It’s time to take the position that _ **it doesn’t matter.** _ It doesn’t matter if homosexuality is a characteristic or a choice; it doesn’t matter if I want to marry some one of my own or the different gender, both or neither; it doesn’t matter if someone else thinks it’s a sickness or a sin. (Of course, my opinion doesn’t really matter, as I am 1. already married 2. to a person of the other gender.) ( **wr,** you were clear; I, clearly, was not. I did not think you shared that attitude.) ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/45 "2008-12-22T02:52:44Z")
Without making light of the subject here, how would I feel if my marriage was nullified? DAMN LUCKY!!! Well, to be technical, I’ve never been married. But if I had been to the one that I asked to marry me, once upon a time, then I would have felt, you guessed it, DAMN LUCKY! ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/46 "2008-12-22T03:11:40Z")
Hearing about the Prop 8 stuff as it was going down, I was pissed about the fucktards pushing it, but that was about the extent of my reaction. Now, when they try this shit, I’m ready to go oil up the guns and make sure they’re all sighted in. Er, I mean, I’m ready to go march for freedom…yeah, that’s what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/47 "2008-12-22T03:29:33Z")
Rage. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/48 "2008-12-22T04:33:54Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > Since my husband is Catholic, for his marriage to be recognized by the Catholic church he needed to be married in the Catholic church by a Catholic priest. For that to happen, we needed to jump through a bunch of hoops that neither one of us was prepared to do, so we got married by an officiant in a community hall. As far as the government of Alberta and Canada are concerned, we are as legally married as anyone else, and that’s all that matters to us. I hate to spoil your indignation… but the Catholic Church considers you married. If you were to divorce your husband, and he sought to remarry in the Church, hewould not be free to do so without first obtaining an annulment. ---
**Author:** ![Dosipede](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dosipede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dosipede)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/49 "2008-12-22T04:40:50Z")
As a resident of that big swath of red in the middle of California, I became increasingly discouraged by the conversations I had as the election drew near. I was hoping the blue parts of the state would outnumber the morons who surround me. It boggles my mind that one of the most militant supporters of Prop 8 that I know personally is someone whose husband informed her through e-mail of his intent to divorce her. Sanctity of marriage indeed. As for the OP’s question, I’ve been married a month. It’s an interracial marriage, which I seem to recall the religious folks having a problem with in years past. If they came to nullify it, I would tell them, “You can have my wedding band when you pry it off my cold, dead finger.” That the gay community is saying basically the same thing makes me smile. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/50 "2008-12-22T04:48:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I hate to spoil your indignation… but the Catholic Church considers you married. If you were to divorce your husband, and he sought to remarry in the Church, hewould not be free to do so without first obtaining an annulment. Eh, I have no indignation (well, not much, anyway) - this is just what my husband told me. It doesn’t matter to me what the Catholic church thinks, because the Catholic church and I have happily ignored each other for 42 years so far. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/51 "2008-12-22T05:59:57Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Today is my 11th anniversary. If you nullify the marriage, do I have to give the present back? > > It sickens me that I get to have an 11th wedding anniversary and others don’t get to have a marriage at all. > > Why is empathy such a hard thing for Americans to get? Okay. Here is what I don’t understand. I have gay friends who got together. They have had 11th anniversaries. They have had 25th anniversaries, complete with big parties and presents. They have had 35th anniversaries. I don’t even know any straight people (other than those of my parents’ and grandparents’ generations) who have had 35th anniversaries, and yes, I’m old enough. The people in my generation have just all gotten divorced before then. Except the gay couples. Sure it would be nice if their unions could be recognized in some meaningful way, but it’s not like anyone’s keeping them from living together or being happy. PS as to the question of how I’d like for my marriage to be nullified, I’d be relieved and happy. Marriage has depressed me from the very first, and possibly that’s why I’m in no hurry to inflict it on gay couples. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/52 "2008-12-22T06:29:13Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Sure it would be nice if their unions could be recognized in some meaningful way, but it’s not like anyone’s keeping them from living together or being happy. You could ask [Sam Beaumont](http://www.sgn.org/sgnnews34_04/page3.cfm) his thoughts on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/53 "2008-12-22T06:45:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I hate to spoil your indignation… but the Catholic Church considers you married. If you were to divorce your husband, and he sought to remarry in the Church, hewould not be free to do so without first obtaining an annulment. As far as I know, the Church doesn’t recognize purely civil marriages in any way that would require the couple to obtain an annulment before a second marriage could take place. If their union was not sacramentally blessed then there is nothing to annul. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/54 "2008-12-22T07:04:24Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > You could ask [Sam Beaumont](http://www.sgn.org/sgnnews34_04/page3.cfm) his thoughts on the matter. Oddly enough, the gay couple I know that’s been together longest live in Oklahoma. They have owned homes together for 30 years, and they’re both on the deed. It’s too bad these people didn’t do the paperwork properly, but of course it’s only a problem because they’re gay. There are never succession problems or contested wills when the participants are hetero. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/55 "2008-12-22T08:25:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s the equivalent of watching some Alabama police officers sicking dogs on a crowd of black people. Even people who didn’t support equality saw that and thought “that’s not right.” Well, damn. If only the bigots would start attacking gays with dogs and fire hoses then maybe they could get equal rights. As it is now however, they are merely being attacked in a manner that while being insidious, humiliating, immoral, and unconstitutional (unconstitutional in the reality-based United States; not unconstitutional in a delusional Christ-Fuck-Land kind of way) it lacks the perfect gnashing teeth Photo-Op and hence, somehow escapes the notice of subtlety-challenged but purportedly Liberty-Loving Americans. Gays attacked by dogs?? YOU BET!!! I’m tuning IN!!! Gays being denied basic, Constitutionally-guaranteed civil rights??? (Yawn) “Honey? Whut time’s 'Murican Idol on? Hey! Bitch?!! Whers my pork rinds? BITCH!!! Dontchu try’un hide, bitch, you know I’ll only whup you that much harder, now!” And don’t forget–those might have been dirty niggers down south in the 60’s, but at least they weren’t no faggots! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/56 "2008-12-22T09:38:36Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > It’s too bad these people didn’t do the paperwork properly, but of course it’s only a problem because they’re gay. There are never succession problems or contested wills when the participants are hetero. Oh, please. It’s far, far harder and more expensive for gays because they simply don’t have all the rights and legal machinery of marriage. And of course they can safely assume that the majority of judges they go before will be bigots who will do everything in their power to ruin them. ---
**Author:** ![TJdude825](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@TJdude825](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJdude825)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/57 "2008-12-22T10:01:10Z")
> [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > I was thinking about Prop8 this morning, and I’d be pretty pissed if my marriage was nullified. I’m thinking about starting a petition in CA to ban divorce or to nullify the marriages of those who have not procreated. I can’t decide which would be better/worse. The latter was actually done in Washington State. I’m not having much luck finding information on it, but I would guess it never made it to the ballot. Here’s one of the few cites I could find: [http://media.barometer.orst.edu/media/storage/paper854/news/2007/02/15/Forum/Three.Kids.And.One.Marriage-2721842.shtml](http://media.barometer.orst.edu/media/storage/paper854/news/2007/02/15/Forum/Three.Kids.And.One.Marriage-2721842.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/58 "2008-12-22T10:27:30Z")
I would feel pretty confused, because as far as I know I am not married to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/59 "2008-12-22T13:26:12Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Okay. Here is what I don’t understand. > > … > > Sure it would be nice if their unions could be recognized in some meaningful way, but it’s not like anyone’s keeping them from living together or being happy. [QUOTE=Hilarity N. Suze] It’s too bad these people didn’t do the paperwork properly, but of course it’s only a problem because they’re gay. There are never succession problems or contested wills when the participants are hetero. [/QUOTE] Haven’t you answered your own question? As stated in the article: > [@](#): > > Every state has common law marriage rules that protect heterosexual couples. If someone dies without a will, or with a faulty one, his or her live-in partner is treated as the rightful inheritor. > > But only seven states currently give Gay couples protections-like inheritance rights and health benefits- through marriage, civil unions and domestic partnerships. The lack of legal protection for same-sex couples is a big part of the issue. Marriage creates a legal status that is recognised by numerous laws. Trying to duplicate that status purely by contracts between the couple and by wills is costly and not nearly as effective as simply plugging in to the bundle of rights conferred by marriage. And with respect to the comment that no-one’s keeping same-sex couples from being happy - the cousins of the deceased who popped up and successfully claimed the estate seem to doing their best to keep the survivor from being happy. It’s also a cautionary tale for other same-sex couples, who have to worry whether something similar might happen to them. It can’t be easy living with that kind of anxiety. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/60 "2008-12-24T03:01:28Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Okay. Here is what I don’t understand. > > I have gay friends who got together. They have had 11th anniversaries. They have had 25th anniversaries, complete with big parties and presents. They have had 35th anniversaries. > > I don’t even know any straight people (other than those of my parents’ and grandparents’ generations) who have had 35th anniversaries, and yes, I’m old enough. The people in my generation have just all gotten divorced before then. > > Except the gay couples. This I do understand. Marriage is different; marriage is legal. Some times it’s just easier to stick with something if you know you can pack up and walk away at any time. When you’re married and things start to go south, you have to make a decision. When you’re partnered, you can hedge your bets. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010.md?page=4)