# How would you feel if YOUR marriage were nullified? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 20, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010 "2008-12-20T01:08:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![purple\_granny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@purple\_granny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purple_granny)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/61 "2008-12-24T03:26:11Z")
about the Catholic Church: my parents were considered by the church, to be “living in sin” Reason: Mom was Catholic, Dad was not. And, they were married by a judge in a county courthouse, not by a priest. Cardinal sin, I guess? ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/62 "2008-12-24T03:37:24Z")
> [@j666](#): > > It’s time to take the position that _ **it doesn’t matter.** _ > It doesn’t matter if homosexuality is a characteristic or a choice; it doesn’t matter if I want to marry some one of my own or the different gender, both or neither; it doesn’t matter if someone else thinks it’s a sickness or a sin. I don’t think most people are anywhere near ready for that yet. The only way gays have gotten as far as they have is by convincing people that it’s an innate characteristic – which I have no issue with, as I figure my orientation is so why shouldn’t theirs be. Those who think it’s a choice tend to think that it’s something that can be “fixed” and why should those perverts be able get married just because they choose to have that icky icky gay sex? _sigh_ I honestly think it’s going to take another generation or two for society as a whole to get to “it doesn’t matter.” ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/63 "2008-12-24T04:07:49Z")
I still don’t understand why homosexuality has to be innate to be okay, but religion, which is a choice, does not. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/64 "2008-12-24T04:25:47Z")
> [@whiterabbit](#): > > I don’t think most people are anywhere near ready for that yet. The only way gays have gotten as far as they have is by convincing people that it’s an innate characteristic – which I have no issue with, as I figure my orientation is so why shouldn’t theirs be. Those who think it’s a choice tend to think that it’s something that can be “fixed” and why should those perverts be able get married just because they choose to have that icky icky gay sex? > > _sigh_ I honestly think it’s going to take another generation or two for society as a whole to get to “it doesn’t matter.” How old are you? I have learned in my life time that people always judge others for their decisions and the law for allowing them, whether it is who you marry or if you neuter your pet. I have seen such changes in my lifetime, and those change pale in comparison to those seen by my mother, and by her mother. My mother was born before women could vote. My aunt refused to admit she was married until she went into labor on the factory floor because the company would not employ married women. I know women who have had elective hysterectomies as birth control. I think that activists should take the position that any two people who want to set up a household with the legal rights of marriage should have that right. Forget sex, babies, characteristic v. choice, and any other thing that is TMI. And let’s just admit that if sex isn’t “icky”, it’s boring. ---
**Author:** ![Daffyd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daffyd/32/8923_2.png) [@Daffyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daffyd)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/65 "2008-12-24T05:05:42Z")
> [@susan](#): > > I still don’t understand why homosexuality has to be innate to be okay, but religion, which is a choice, does not. **Amen** , sister! ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/66 "2008-12-24T08:03:32Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Oh, please. It’s far, far harder and more expensive for gays because they simply don’t have all the rights and legal machinery of marriage. And of course they can safely assume that the majority of judges they go before will be bigots who will do everything in their power to ruin them. Oh, please. The exact thing happened to a friend of mine–female, married to a man. Some years after she had sold her own very nice house to move in with him, he died, and his children from a previous marriage essentially kicked her out of the house. It was the same kind of thing–an improperly recorded quit-claim deed, or some such. And she’s 84. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/67 "2008-12-24T09:05:08Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Oh, please. The exact thing happened to a friend of mine–female, married to a man. Some years after she had sold her own very nice house to move in with him, he died, and his children from a previous marriage essentially kicked her out of the house. It was the same kind of thing–an improperly recorded quit-claim deed, or some such. And she’s 84. Haven’t you been reading this thread ? It’s NOT the same. Being married brings in a slew of rights automatically; it’s impractical at best to try to recreate all those rights one by one. Not to mention very expensive. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/68 "2008-12-24T15:03:02Z")
> [@j666](#): > > How old are you? I have learned in my life time that people always judge others for their decisions and the law for allowing them, whether it is who you marry or if you neuter your pet. > > I have seen such changes in my lifetime, and those change pale in comparison to those seen by my mother, and by her mother. I’m 32, and having had a few talks with my 88-year-old grandma about the changes she’s seen I totally see where you’re coming from. But I still think we’re not quite to where “it doesn’t matter” is the common attitude. I’d like to be proved wrong, but I still think it’ll be another generation before that really happens – though I certainly hope and pray the laws get changed long before that and that the antis have to suck it up and deal. I’ve lived in too many places where being gay is definitely _not_ okay to believe that general attitudes will change without another generation coming in and saying, “Grandpa, that’s just silly. What’s the deal with being gay?” ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/69 "2008-12-24T21:16:47Z")
> [@whiterabbit](#): > > I’m 32, and having had a few talks with my 88-year-old grandma about the changes she’s seen I totally see where you’re coming from. > > But I still think we’re not quite to where “it doesn’t matter” is the common attitude. I’d like to be proved wrong, but I still think it’ll be another generation before that really happens – though I certainly hope and pray the laws get changed long before that and that the antis have to suck it up and deal. > > I’ve lived in too many places where being gay is definitely _not_ okay to believe that general attitudes will change without another generation coming in and saying, “Grandpa, that’s just silly. What’s the deal with being gay?” I agree with you; my mother’s generation is making an effort to shift their attitudes, but they have had their attitudes for a long time, and it takes time to shift them. My mother is 66, about the nicest person you’ll ever meet, and she would never say anything mean to a homosexual person, but it’s outside of her experience and I think more than anything, she just doesn’t understand it. Which is kind of funny, because I think she has a gay sister. My aunt has lived with a woman for about 30 years now; we don’t know if it’s a case of her truly being just a roommate, or if they think they can’t be openly gay. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/70 "2008-12-24T22:06:08Z")
> [@whiterabbit](#): > > why should those perverts be able get married just because they choose to have that icky icky gay sex? We let other people get married and have icky sex. We let old people get married and have icky old people sex. We let fat people get married and have icky fat people sex. We let your parents or grandparents stay married and have sex, and who can say the idea of their parents or grandparents having sex isn’t at least a little icky? ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/71 "2008-12-24T22:24:53Z")
I was being sarcastic with the “icky icky” bit – I don’t think it is. But I think the “ick” factor is a big part of some people’s homophobia, whether they will admit it or not. ETA: My grandma is actually very very open-minded about gay people. But she was blown away (in a good way) by this last election, she never thought she’d live to see it! But she’s a rarity among her generation. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/72 "2008-12-24T23:49:56Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > As far as I know, the Church doesn’t recognize purely civil marriages in any way that would require the couple to obtain an annulment before a second marriage could take place. If their union was not sacramentally blessed then there is nothing to annul. No, you’re wrong. Any previous marriage must be anulled. A previous marriage that was purely civil suffers from a [defect of form](http://catholicexchange.com/2007/06/01/81219/) and can be easily anulled, but an anullment is still required. > [@purple\_granny](#): > > about the Catholic Church: > > my parents were considered by the church, to be “living in sin” > > Reason: Mom was Catholic, Dad was not. And, they were married > by a judge in a county courthouse, not by a priest. > > Cardinal sin, I guess? They were “living in sin,” in the sense that they failed to follow one of the six basic precepts of the Church: to obey the laws of Church concerning matrimony. But don’t extrapolate “living in sin” to mean that their marriage would not have required a decree of nullity before either would have been free to marry someone else. As **Inner Stickler** has learned above, even a couple that gets married at Ed’s All-Nude Revue and Motorcycle Repair Emporium Weddings All Night must show that there was a defect of form before that marriage may be deemed invalid. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/73 "2008-12-27T02:07:06Z")
> [@whiterabbit](#): > > I’m 32, and having had a few talks with my 88-year-old grandma about the changes she’s seen I totally see where you’re coming from. > > But I still think we’re not quite to where “it doesn’t matter” is the common attitude. … So, we have to point that out. Or not. Because they already know. My mother-in-law told me a story about an inheritance problem with a gay couple in her town. Everyone in the very conservative town _ **shunned** _ the children that contested the will that favored the “friend” because “everyone knew” the gay couple were “.. what you call ‘partners’, but _ **we didn’t talk about it** _ then.” Still, everyone knew the Partner should inherit. That’s the real problem; decent people respect partnership, but don’t admit that others don’t. (Did Grandmother have a union card? Ask if she was asked or told to resign.) ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/74 "2008-12-27T02:46:34Z")
I would like to see the right to perform marriage ceremonies taken away from all pastors, ministers, preachers, priests and whoever else claims to speak for God. All marriages would be secular in my world; buy the license, sign the papers before a notary public, and be on your way to your honeymoon or whatever. No spoken words would be required; if a commitment is genuine, words will not make it more so. The older I get, the less use I have for religion in any shape, form, or fashion. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/75 "2008-12-27T03:00:51Z")
I have no idea what you mean by a union card? Perhaps you are more optimistic about societal attitudes than I am. I think we’re going to get there, but I think it’s going to take longer than we’d like. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/76 "2008-12-27T07:09:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, you’re wrong. > > Any previous marriage must be anulled. A previous marriage that was purely civil suffers from a [defect of form](http://catholicexchange.com/2007/06/01/81219/) and can be easily anulled, but an anullment is still required. Ok. I’m having difficulty picturing what exactly is there to be annulled but, ok. Obviously, there are some large holes in my parochial education. ---
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010/77 "2008-12-27T08:22:53Z")
How would I feel if my marriage were nullified? Unfortunately I may be able to tell you very specifically soon :(. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-feel-if-your-marriage-were-nullified/478010.md?page=3)