# How would you go about a (near) complete confiscation of firearms in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 25, 2002, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825 "2002-10-25T11:50:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![John\_Harrison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5ac83/32.png) [@John\_Harrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Harrison)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2002, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/81 "2002-11-01T18:26:24Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t see why anyone in an urban area needs a gun unless it is part of their job. Self defense doesn’t count? > [@](#): > > I could just as easily point out that guns are used for self-defense, deter home invasions, and empower women to become able to resist a larger, stronger attacker. > > However, guns aren’t very good at that sort of thing and cause more problems than they solve. Really? This statement directly contradicts evidence in the US. Please feel free to elaborate. > [@](#): > > I don’t see how restrictions on arms can hinder sportspeople. By banning guns based on cosmetic features. If a competitive shooter can no longer legally own his firearm, he has been “hindered”. No? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2002, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/82 "2002-11-01T19:32:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoe \* > \*\*When you read about the increase in crime in England, you have to realize that a 20% increase in gun-related deaths would mean that fourteen more people died this year than last year. > > In all of Canada last year there were less than 170 gun-related deaths. In the U.S. there were over 11,000 gun-related deaths. What is so different about Canada? > \*\* Interesting question. The statistics are slightly less dramatic, though, if you take the differences in population into account. According to the 2000 Canadian Census page (which measures in thousands of thousands instead of millions- I don’t know if anyone else finds that confusing- and gave US population in the comparison chart at 10 mil under US census to boot.) there are slightly over 30 million people in Canada. The 2000 US Census records our population at just over 281 million. So the US has 9.3 times as many citizens, give or take a couple fractions of a precent. If we pretended that Canada and The US had the same population, the US one, the 170 deaths Canadian gun deaths would be 1581. Which means that there are just under 7 times as many gun-related deaths in the US than in Canada. It’s not a good thing, but a lot less scary than simply seeing 170 vs 11,000. I’ll leave it to others to speculate why there are nearly seven times as many gun deaths in the US, though, because I don’t know enough about the factors to make any reasonable guesses as to why that would be the case. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2002, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/83 "2002-11-01T20:00:29Z")
> [@](#): > > **said gex gex** > \*However, guns aren’t very good at that sort of thing and cause more problems than they solve. \* Pleaes look Charmaine Dunbar in the eye and tell her this. [http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/1717058/detail.html](http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/1717058/detail.html) [http://www.sierratimes.com/02/10/26/ar-waters.htm](http://www.sierratimes.com/02/10/26/ar-waters.htm) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2002, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/84 "2002-11-01T20:42:00Z")
If no one here can answer my questions (with the exception of a partial by **BF** , thanks), can someone at least point to a non-biased resource I can use to find out? ---
**Author:** ![BF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5ac83/32.png) [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/85 "2002-11-01T20:48:49Z")
Sorry I haven’t gotten back to you sooner, **Dseid** , but this work thing is a PITA. Heres a [site (warning pro-gun)](http://www.gunssavelife.com/federal.htm) that lists court cases and some of the penalties. The other [site](http://www.nafr.org/DontLie/qna.htm) gives a very good overview of the coordination between a pro-gun organization and the BATF. As far as manufacturers being prosecuted for their product working correctly, I don’t support bars being prosecuted for drunk drivers, nor the manufacturer of the car that the drunk driver used to kill someone. As for acquiring a firearm at a gun show after being turned down at a gun shop, no. Unless he purchases the firearm from a private citizen, he must still fill out an application and go through the NICS when dealing with a Federally Licensed Firearms Dealer (FFL). ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2002, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/86 "2002-11-01T22:29:21Z")
> [@](#): > > By banning guns based on cosmetic features. If a competitive shooter can no longer legally own his firearm, he has been “hindered”. No? I’m not aware of any types of firearms that have been rendered illegal while being owned by individuals. The assault weapons “ban” is more loophole than fabric in that it bends over backwards to avoind the specter of anything like confiscation. And the deal with the cosmetic features was easily worked around so the law has had virtually no effect. What’s silly about the gun lobby is that they’re in such denial of their own strength, they can’t see the forest for the trees! ---
**Author:** ![ouisey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc29f/32.png) [@ouisey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouisey)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2002, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/87 "2002-11-01T23:29:14Z")
I liked Chris Rock’s solution (hijacked out of Bowling for Colmubine) of charging $5K for every bullet. I don’t care if people have guns, as long as they never shoot them. Maybe we could rig up some credit card notification every time a bullet is shot out of a gun. If you really need to use that gun (just in case the boogie man comes to get you), you won’t mind paying $5K for it. And if Paw needs to kill a deer, he can put on a loin cloth and tuck a knife between his teeth and hunt it like a Real Man TM. BTW, Michael Moore may have some faulty logic at times, but he was spot-on when he claimed that we live in a society of fear, exacerbated by a sensation-driven media. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2002, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/88 "2002-11-01T23:31:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gex gex \* > \*\* > > You mean when “Pooh” is stuck in your face by the gun-wielding maniac attempting to rape or abuse you? \*\* His mistake. Guns are never used in self defense or anything good - only used to kill toddlers. > [@](#): > > \*\* > By placing restrictions on gun ownership, guns become less of a part of that society. This can lead to eventual confiscation. \*\* Don’t be silly. Slippery slope arguments are a fallacy! 🙂 > [@](#): > > \*\* > > However, guns aren’t very good at that sort of thing and cause more problems than they solve. \*\* Cite? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Harrison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5ac83/32.png) [@John\_Harrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Harrison)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2002, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/89 "2002-11-01T23:58:30Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not aware of any types of firearms that have been rendered illegal while being owned by individuals. Off the top of my head I’ll mention the SKS (w/ detachable mag) ban in California. (After they were registered, btw) ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/90 "2002-11-02T00:10:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elfkin477 \* > \*\* > > If we pretended that Canada and The US had the same population, the US one, the 170 deaths Canadian gun deaths would be 1581. Which means that there are just under 7 times as many gun-related deaths in the US than in Canada. It’s not a good thing, but a lot less scary than simply seeing 170 vs 11,000. > I’ll leave it to others to speculate why there are nearly seven times as many gun deaths in the US, though, because I don’t know enough about the factors to make any reasonable guesses as to why that would be the case. \*\* Gang violence. [Cite.](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/d_circumgun.htm) I don’t think the FBI’s uniform crime statistics are funded by the NRA, so it seems a reputable site. In 1999, the number of firearms homicides that were gang related is 92% of firearms homicides. Ninety-two percent. Taking your number of 11,000 and taking out gang-related homicide, the number of non-gang related homicides are: 880. And so discluding gangs, we’ve got 1581 vs 880. The idea that the US is a place where everyone shoots each other up is a myth - gang violence holds an almost exclusive hold over homicide by firearm. That isn’t to say that gang related violence somehow gets a pass as far as guns go, but it shows that 92% of firearms homicides are commited by groups that are the least likely to be affected by gun control laws. Gangs already tend to have criminal membership, obviously, and so they’re not going to obey laws out of the goodness of their hearts. Additionally, gangs already have an infrastructure to receive illegal weapons as (and I’m guessing) a decent portion of their membership are already felons, and for that matter people who aren’t don’t want to buy guns legitimately due to the nature of their use. And so if guns are restricted or confiscated, it’s unlikely to put any real dent in gang related homicide - they already have connections to the black market that will form for them, and that is already supplying them with weapons. And so gun control aims at the other 8%. And a quick question: When the FBI details ‘homicide’ statistics, does that include legitimate homicide? That is, would a police officer killing an armed suspect, or a private citizen killing someone in justifiable self defense, included in total homicides? And so we have to keep in mind that any gun control measure enacted is pretty much only going to affect the 8% of homicides that aren’t gang related - 880 of them if homicides are rounded to 11000. Not exactly an epidemic of gun crime. But think of the children. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/91 "2002-11-02T00:12:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sqweels \* > \*\* > > I’m not aware of any types of firearms that have been rendered illegal while being owned by individuals. The assault weapons “ban” is more loophole than fabric in that it bends over backwards to avoind the specter of anything like confiscation. And the deal with the cosmetic features was easily worked around so the law has had virtually no effect. > > What’s silly about the gun lobby is that they’re in such denial of their own strength, they can’t see the forest for the trees! \*\* By the logic, a rule that banned civilian ownership of guns except for currently owned guns, which would be grandfathered, wouldn’t be a hinderance. After all, they still have their guns, right? ---
**Author:** ![I\_am\_Sparticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@I\_am\_Sparticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_am_Sparticus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/92 "2002-11-02T00:52:59Z")
Anyone under the age of 21 is a minor in my book. As if shooting people over the age of 21 is a good thing. Guns don’t kill people, gun owners do. The NRA, making a list of all annoying gun nuts at the expense of gun nuts. Join the NRA! Be first on the Ashcroft/Reno round up. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/93 "2002-11-02T03:13:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*Wasn’t it the Taliban who forbade people to bare their arms? \*\* If you were a woman, you couldn’t bare ankles, legs, arms or face. However, men could _bear_ arms. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/94 "2002-11-02T03:49:15Z")
In answer to the OP. [ul][li]Have the Surgeon General come out and declare that guns are dangerous to one’s health.[/li][li]Have states raise taxes on guns.[/li][li]Have Congress pass law requiring every gun to display a large label saying it is dangerous to one’s health.[/li][li]Have states raise taxes on guns and ammo.[/li][li]Convince those that get rid of their guns that they have done a wonderful thing and that they must compaign against guns (converts are always the worst).[/li][li]Have states raise taxes on guns, ammo and clay pigeons.[/li][li]Get search warrants and comb thru gun manufacturers records to find information proving that they knew that guns could kill people and be used in robberies back before most people bought their guns.[/li][li]Have states raise taxes on guns, ammo, clay pigeons and every other type of target.[/li][li]Start neighborhoods where guns are not allowed and require real estate agents to ask clients if they want a gun neighborhood or a non-gun neighborhood.[/li][li]Give out grants for scientists to study the dangerous effect gun smoke on non-gun users. Be sure to let them know that more grants will be available if they find something.[/li][li]Raise taxes on guns, ammo, clay pigeons, other targets, bows and arrows.[/li][li]Raises all such taxes again.[/li][li]Have California outlaw guns while hunting.[/li][li]Have states sue gun manufacturers for what it has cost in the future to treat people who have been harmed by guns.[/li][li]Allow civil suits against gun manufacturers for damages and loss of a relative who was injured or is dying from a gun wound.[/ul][/li] That won’t get rid of all guns, because there are just some people who are too addicted. However, it will make the non-gun owners feel superior and self-righteous. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![vince66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/58956e/32.png) [@vince66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vince66)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/95 "2002-11-02T07:48:09Z")
It is pretty easy to underestimate the inventivness and ingenuity of people.I live in the Detroit metro area (motor capitol of the world).This area like so many others is chock full of tool makers and tool and die shops of every variety. Once the citizens’ weaponry has been confiscated the crafty among us will get busy creating our own protective devices, be they simple zip guns or garage built “bushmasters” with scopes. Just as marijuana has become the nation’s highest cash crop and we are no longer dependant on imports, the citizens will create an new underground supply of weaponry. Please note the astounding sucess of the “war on drugs”. ---
**Author:** ![BF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5ac83/32.png) [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/96 "2002-11-02T22:50:21Z")
That’s a pretty good list **kniz** , and apparently you’re not the only one who thinks so. One just has to read some of Kalifornia’s latest legislative attempts and they’ve just about covered your list. FTR, a 5 cent tax bill has been shelved 'til next year, “assault rifles” have been banned, “sniper rifles” may have to be registered (single shot bolt-action hunting rifles with black stocks), “ballistic fingerprinting” is being considered, and pressure on local municipalities is being applied to prevent gun shows. In addition, the AMA is promoting an anti-gun agenda by suggesting to GP’s that they ask their patients if there are guns in the house, as to better gauge their overall health (with some quoting the thoroughly debunked Kellerman study of the 43 times more likely to die with a gun in the house). And there are a number of lawsuits pending filed by municipalities to bankrupt some gun manufacturers. So, all in all, if I was as omniscient as you, I’d buy a lottery ticket, either that or you’ve just been keeping up with current events. ---
**Author:** ![unclviny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e274bd/32.png) [@unclviny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclviny)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/97 "2002-11-04T14:43:47Z")
dopers, i own a tec-9 and i assure you it is not! a fully automatic weapon, i bought mine when g.h.w.b. started talking about the “assault weapon” ban, do me a favor, when you come for my guns please stand on the plastic as i do not want to muss up my front porch, you can have my guns (bullets first) any old time, i have never hunted in my life (killing stuff for no reason bothers me and there are grocery stores close to my house) but i own several guns and you are welcome to try to take them away. “i love my country but i fear my government” unclviny ---
**Author:** ![BF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5ac83/32.png) [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/98 "2002-11-05T01:44:15Z")
Sshhhhh, **unclviny** , we’ve been trying to keep you in secret reserve when we need the big debate guns. Ok, everyone, there’s nothing more to see here, move along … ---
**Author:** ![ShetlandPony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4bbf92/32.png) [@ShetlandPony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShetlandPony)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/99 "2002-11-05T13:08:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SenorBeef \* > \*\* > > Gang violence. > > [Cite.](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/d_circumgun.htm) > > In 1999, the number of firearms homicides that were gang related is 92% of firearms homicides. Ninety-two percent. > > \*\* Shurely Shome Mishtake Here!! 92% of Gang-related homicides were firearm homicides!! in 2000 there were 650 Juvenile Gang Homicides. [http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius\_00/00crime2\_3.pdf](http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_00/00crime2_3.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![unclviny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e274bd/32.png) [@unclviny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclviny)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825/100 "2002-11-05T14:16:12Z")
bf, i get a little wound up when people talk about trying to save myself from myself, i’m an adult, i have proper training, i own my weapons legally, if you do not want guns in your house please by all means do not buy them!!! but leave my rights alone (or i’ll come after some of your your rights, and we don’t want that do we?), do you “need” 12 pairs of shoes?, do you “need” that big SUV?, do you “need” that second helping?. “when you criminalize guns only criminals will have guns” unclviny [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-go-about-a-near-complete-confiscation-of-firearms-in-the-us/133825.md?page=4)