# How would you handle daily calls to prayer starting at 6 am? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 22, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317 "2015-11-22T23:19:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/81 "2015-11-25T06:39:44Z")
Okay, so the link says: > [@](#): > > To balance the rights, Hamtramck can make adjustments in its noise ordinance. For example, it can limit the hours, duration and maximum noise level under which calls to prayer and ringing of church bells are permissible. It should do so by adopting specific neutral criteria that cover both religious and nonreligious noise. > > The maximum level of sound permitted under the ordinance should be scientifically measurable and not subjectively based. > > The city must allow for reasonable accommodation of religious speech, whether it is the ringing of church bells or the Muslim call to prayer or interdenominational holiday decorations. This is also true in governmental workplaces. I’m good with that. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/82 "2015-11-25T06:40:26Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I used to live next to a fire station. I’m sure I could get used to calls for prayer. You know how I mentioned I live by a church? There’s a fire station across the street from said church. No, I’m not kidding. I will say though that a call to prayer at 6 am is less obtrusive than a cat poking you in the face because she’s hungry and wants you to get up. I’ll also say that I’m fairly tolerant of noise when I sleep, and even if it woke me up, I could easily just go back to sleep. I’ve never had a big problem with noise, unless I’m sick or something. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/83 "2015-11-25T07:48:43Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Okay, so the link says: > > I’m good with that. Me too. But they haven’t done that. The exemption is still only for religious groups; it’s not neutrally worded. I’m not okay with that. I’m not okay with any religious expression in public that I can’t avoid, really. I tolerate it, because I have no choice, but I’m not okay with it. Religion is between you and your god(s). When you swing your bells and they hit my ears at 6 am, I’m not happy. When the city council gives you greater freedoms than it gives non-religious groups, I’m really not happy. If the freedom of expression is important at 6 am, then my freedom of expression should be protected just as much as a church’s. Or we could all just be quiet. I’d prefer that. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/84 "2015-11-25T07:58:41Z")
But you can avoid it, same way you avoid any pervasive characteristic of a distinctive ethnic neighborhood that bothers you: don’t live there. Live in a community where the majority wants the standards you do, and let these people do the same. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/85 "2015-11-25T09:11:12Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > But they haven’t done that. Well, then, I think they should. Listen, I’m not saying “ooh, Muslims are so downtrodden, we need to treat them like speshul snowflakes to make up for it.” And I certainly don’t think anyone should be allowed to blare anything at crazy high levels for any reason (unless it is a tsunami warning or something - as you say, public safety) at any time of day or night. I think this situation should be treated like any other. What I am uncomfortable with in this thread, and I am _not_ singling you out, is the very clear subtext or sometimes explicitly stated assertion that this thing is bad because it has to do with Islam. Few in this thread have actually lived with the azan outside of a military situation (which comes with its own stresses and I could see how it would be annoying in that context). Those who have seem to think that hearing the azan is just not that big a deal. We hear it, we incorporate into our lives, we get on with things. While there are some heartening indications that a lot of posters get that this is how it works, I am not sure everyone else in the thread is listening (heh) to those of us who say this. ---
**Author:** ![Sahirrnee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sahirrnee/32/13937_2.png) [@Sahirrnee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sahirrnee)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/86 "2015-11-25T10:53:00Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I really don’t know how to defend myself against the barely articulated accusations of racism here. All I can say is that is not what’s going on here. You’re making this more complicated than it has to be. I’m just as against 6 am church bells, 6 am ice cream trucks and 6 am garbage pickups. 6 am is simply an unacceptable hour for public noise. Period. I don’t care what you’re doing, although I’ll allow that emergency vehicles have to be noisy sometimes because of safety. No one else does. Shut up. Wait until 9 am when I’ve had my coffee and I’m almost human again. I hardly think you need to defend yourself. Nor does anybody else in this thread who doesn’t want to hear the call to prayer at 6am, or any other time if day. Some people might think it is a pleasing sound and something you get used to - well the guy who worships at the House of Harley thinks revving his bike makes a pleasing sound too. Doesn’t make it true. Some of us don’t want noise early in the morning, and some of us don’t want to hear prayers first thing in the morning, or at any time of day. Muslims can practice their religion anyway they want as long as I don’t have to hear it, I don’t have to accept any religion intruding into my space. It’s not about racism, there is no race in islam. It’s about rude ass behavior. Not liking something about a certain culture/religion doesn’t make you racist. Some people bend over so far backwards to be accepting and to prove they aren’t racist that you have to wonder who they are trying to convince. I knew before I posted in this thread that eventually the racism card was going to be pulled - the only surprise is that it took this long. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/87 "2015-11-25T11:45:53Z")
> [@Sahirrnee](#): > > Not liking something about a certain culture/religion doesn’t make you racist. It sure doesn’t. Catholic, Hindu, Muslim, etc. - last time I checked those weren’t races. What term are we looking for here? I’m not sure. Look, I believe that there are posters in this thread who sincerely don’t give a shit that it’s an Islamic call to prayer we’re talking about - they would want to totally silence ANY noise if they could. But if you honestly believe that not single poster in this thread finds the idea of the azan more off-putting that they otherwise would because it’s an Islamic thing, I think your glasses have a stronger rose tint than mine do. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/88 "2015-11-25T11:51:13Z")
> [@Sahirrnee](#): > > I knew before I posted in this thread that eventually the racism card was going to be pulled - the only surprise is that it took this long. Sorry for the double post - I’m a little slow on the uptake right now, it’s been a long day. But hey - can you quote the post where “the race card” was played? I’m not seeing the term used until you and **Why Not** brought it up. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/89 "2015-11-25T23:28:53Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Sorry for the double post - I’m a little slow on the uptake right now, it’s been a long day. But hey - can you quote the post where “the race card” was played? I’m not seeing the term used until you and **Why Not** brought it up. Let’s not get caught up in semantics. Can we all agree that “racism” in the context of this thread is the same as “religionism” or better still “otherism”? That said, call me a rudist…I am totally bigoted against a group of people who are rude at any time of day by purposely blasting across the neighborhood any message that A) I don’t want to hear, B) doesn’t concern me, C) and can be easily avoided by other means (aka phone call or app etc). ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/90 "2015-11-26T00:39:00Z")
Any one ever hear a Christian church ring bells at _6 am_? No, because they won’t want to be that inconsiderate. To me, the entire problem is the early morning thing. I don’t give a crap if the mosque sounds off after 9 am. I consider a 6 am religious call to prayer a big F U to the entire surrounding community. I think one solution would be to have all the local churches start ringing their bells at 5:59:59 am. The ensuing racket would hopefully make the majority of the community come to their senses and stop ALL unnecessary noise. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/91 "2015-11-26T00:44:36Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Care to produce any evidence for that despicable statement? It may be more guess than fact, but “despicable”? Would you like a comprehensive history of the post-Umayyad Middle East? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/92 "2015-11-26T01:00:08Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > You don’t understand. They don’t care if their 6 am call to prayer bothers you. Actually IMHO, they _like_ the fact that you are disturbed by their 6 am call to prayer. Maybe you’ll move. This interpretation was called “despicable.” > [@even\_sven](#): > > If it’s all one big conspiracy to get non-Muslims to move, it’s a spectacularly long running one, and not a particularly effective one. Sure, sure. > [@Peremensoe](#): > > But you can avoid it, same way you avoid any pervasive characteristic of a distinctive ethnic neighborhood that bothers you: don’t live there. Live in a community where the majority wants the standards you do, and let these people do the same. And there we have it. Even if you or I might get used to it, some people won’t. They’ll be annoyed, and what’ll they do? Move, probably. And so those who are actively annoyed by it will move, and they’ll carry their irritation with them and teach their biases to their children. But of course this kind of ethnic movement isn’t “planned.” Sure. I’m not sure if the church bells (actually fake as far as I know) in my town go all night. Maybe only to 10 p.m. From a mile away, I don’t mind them. But I have been told that the part of town they come from (now full of churches) used to be a Jewish neighborhood. If I were one of those families, within a block of that, when the church went in, I’d feel driven out, and I’d be right. People can be jerks. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/93 "2015-11-26T02:43:12Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Would you like a comprehensive history of the post-Umayyad Middle East? Yes, please, I would. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/94 "2015-11-26T02:45:42Z")
I don’t care if the call to prayer consisted of my favorite songs of all time, I don’t want to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/95 "2015-11-26T03:06:12Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > This interpretation was called "despicable."Sure, sure.And there we have it. Even if you or I might get used to it, some people won’t. They’ll be annoyed, and what’ll they do? Move, probably. And so those who are actively annoyed by it will move, and they’ll carry their irritation with them and teach their biases to their children. > > But of course this kind of ethnic movement isn’t “planned.” Sure. Gotta hand it to the Muslims for the long game. Spend a few centuries sending a guy to go yell on a tower along with the crowing roosters. Do that in every city, town, and village no matter how remote, across a major chunk of the globe. Wait until loudspeakers and sleeping in are invented… All of that leading up to the ultimate goal…eventually being able to mildly annoy a small town in the American Midwest. They are crafty people, with their “culture” and “religion.” ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/96 "2015-11-26T03:38:57Z")
I think they’re people, and people are dicks. Or is general ethnic dickery not a thing if you’re Muslim? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/97 "2015-11-26T03:46:25Z")
out of time to edit: I think they’re people, and even people who think they’re decent, kind, and godly can be utter dicks to outgroups. Or is general ethnic dickery not a thing if you’re Muslim? :rolleyes: Anyway, it doesn’t matter what the intent is. There is going to be a subset of the populace that get sick of it and leave. And not all of them will realize that not being able to stand several minutes a day of warbling in Arabic is really _their_ problem; those guys are going to whinge that they got pushed out, and it’s going to be even more of the phenomenon of exurb/urban animosity that we have so much of in this country, now with Crusader overtones. I don’t know what to do about it, but it’s already bound to happen. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/98 "2015-11-26T04:40:10Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > even people who think they’re decent, kind, and godly can be utter dicks to outgroups. I can’t decide how I’d like to respond to that. It’s either: 1. Drily pointing out the absolute irony of that statement and incurring your annoyance. 2. Agreeing with you. So how about I do both, and end on the nicer option? We are indeed in agreement here. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/99 "2015-11-26T04:41:25Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Gotta hand it to the Muslims for the long game. Spend a few centuries sending a guy to go yell on a tower along with the crowing roosters. Do that in every city, town, and village no matter how remote, across a major chunk of the globe. Wait until loudspeakers and sleeping in are invented… > > All of that leading up to the ultimate goal…eventually being able to mildly annoy a small town in the American Midwest. > > They are crafty people, with their “culture” and “religion.” **even sven** , if I’m ever in the DC area (and it some point I probably will be, though it might be a year or two or three from now), can I buy you a drink in honor of that post? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2015, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317/100 "2015-11-26T04:54:33Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > Any one ever hear a Christian church ring bells at _6 am_? No, because they won’t want to be that inconsiderate. Actually, I lived quite close to a RC church in Mannheim Germany. They rang their bells at that time. [Here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_bell) is a good place to see what other times they rang the things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-daily-calls-to-prayer-starting-at-6-am/738317.md?page=6)