# How would you handle this (hypothetical) rape accusation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 29, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566 "2019-12-29T23:48:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/81 "2019-12-30T23:08:42Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > But here’s the thing. If they don’t want an investigation, why are they coming forward? I mean, they are adults, right? They have a responsibility to fairness and to the society they live in. Does anyone not understand that if you tell the police or a university official “Dave raped me” that an investigation will follow which requires a follow up from the accuser? What do they think or expect will happen? > > I understand the trauma that a sexual assault victim has experienced, but it should be understood that the whole world doesn’t just take your word for anything. You have a responsibility other than making an accusation and walking off. It’s a ridiculous hypothetical. I answered it, pretending it wasn’t absurd… but occasionally people do absurd things. And I never demanded that “the whole world” take anyone’s word for anything. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/82 "2019-12-30T23:11:21Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > … > Who has to drop? Who has to finish the class remotely? Who gets to stay with the class while the other goes to the other room? First, the authorities attempt mediation, and see if either one volunteers. Given the number of students who study off tapes, there’s a decent chance one will. If that doesn’t work, the accused goes to the other room. The odds are higher that he’s lying than that the accuser is. And the remedy isn’t so horrific that it’s worth doing something more complicated. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/83 "2019-12-30T23:25:25Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > First, the authorities attempt mediation, and see if either one volunteers. Given the number of students who study off tapes, there’s a decent chance one will. If that doesn’t work, the accused goes to the other room. The odds are higher that he’s lying than that the accuser is. And the remedy isn’t so horrific that it’s worth doing something more complicated. What odds do you base this on? This is assuming that any sort of punishment should be based upon odds. Further, if we assume that whatever biased and feminist study that you cite for me about these odds are true, then what’s to stop these odds from changing once unprincipled accusers find out about the new policy that gets unwanted people kicked out of their class and then skews the odds the other way? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2019, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/84 "2019-12-30T23:45:58Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Suppose you are president (or whichever administrator ultimately makes the final decisions) at a university. A woman - a student in your university - comes to you and claims that she has been raped by a man - also a university student. The following circumstances apply: > > 1. There are no witnesses to the alleged crime. > 2. Both students are people with clean backgrounds. The man has never been known to do anything like this, and the woman has never been known to lie. > 3. No DNA/forensic evidence has been obtained or examined, because the accuser doesn’t want to go to the police. She wants the school to take disciplinary action, but wants to avoid the courts and their associated hassle. > 4. There are no state/federal laws that mandate that you take a particular course of action (i.e., “you must give the accused the benefit of presumption of innocence” or something like that.) > 5. The woman vehemently insists that a rape has happened, and the man equally vehemently denies that such a thing has ever happened. > 6. The school itself has no policies or precedents that lay out what you are to do, or not do, in this situation. > > What would you do in this situation? If I were so principled as my ideals, or so ideal as my principles, I would resign effective immediately upon receiving the complaint. Why? Because (6) I am president of a school that has no policies in place to handle rape accusations. That kind of obliviousness is a major, major problem which is best solved with a change in leadership. I would also make this very clear and public in my letter/speech of resignation. The hypothetical is flawed, but it’s salvageable. I can still answer and debate the core question, “what should the policy be in this hypothetical rape accusation?” Next, as **iiandyiiii** astutely observes, none of the facts given in the case are known to me (the president) at the moment the accusation first reaches my ears. The first step is to depose the accuser. It doesn’t really matter who the witness talks to as long as it is a single point of contact made clear by existing policy. It could be me, the president, or it could be a designated person from the campus police. Either I take the deposition or I refer her to a designated interviewer. The victim then attends an appointment with the interviewer, to hear her story. I am not sure whether or not the victim should be advised that the university retains the right to take anything they say to municipal authorities, or even whether the university should retain that right. I will defer to people more experienced with psychology and criminal/law enforcement subjects; as I think there may be a chilling effect at play. Nevertheless the victim must have the right to unilaterally go to municipal authorities at all times. Due to the chilling effect that I _assume_ would exist, I would not have the school take all accusations straight to the municipal police (where **DrDeth** would do so). Even if the municipal police were involved, I would still want a campus investigation for reasons given by **Oredigger77** , to the extent possible without obstructing the municipal police. The District Attorney may not bring the case to court, whereas presumably school policy is more strict than the law in some relevant way; the accused may have definitely\* violated school policy without definitely\* breaking the law. - Here I mean beyond a reasonable doubt, because that is the standard I would use in both disciplinary proceedings and criminal proceedings. It is not unheard of for schools to use a lesser standard. I am not sure whether to start an investigation if the victim expressly asks us not to investigate. Maybe someone here could convince me on that question. I am definitely against taking disciplinary action if I have nothing to go on but the accuser’s word. She may want to avoid the court’s hassles, but she still has to put up with the university’s hassles if she wants the university to hand down a punishment. If the investigation does take place, and as stated in the hypothetical no evidence or facts appear to tip the scales in favor of the victim or the accused, I default to not guilty. Deep down, I think it is better that a number of guilty people go free than an innocent person be punished. Even slightly punished. This is because I think I have more control over actually being guilty than I do over being accused, and also because of how I view the nature of morality. I’m not sure _how many_ people it would take for me to abandon the presumption of innocence, but I think that’s a separate debate unto itself. ~Max, back from vacation ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/85 "2019-12-31T00:20:52Z")
I will point out it’s pretty rare for a competent investigation to produce no evidence. In most cases, the investigators are going to find evidence that either corroborates the initial accusation or contradicts it. This is true even in cases where the primary evidence is testimony. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/86 "2019-12-31T02:16:14Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Try this (not really). Go to the police and tell them that your buddy Dave took $1k in cash off of your kitchen table when he was over but you don’t want to testify, don’t want an investigation, and just want that to be the end of it. In this instance, one which is not tinged with political advocacy, the police would put their pen down and tell you that without your cooperation, there is no way that anything is going to happen. > > And expect to be questioned yourself. As the police don’t know you, perhaps you have a beef against Dave and are trying to get him in trouble. > > This is what real investigations do: the seek the truth without a pre-ordained outcome. Stealing $1000 is a relatively minor offense when compared to rape. A better comparison would need to be made with a more severe crime like attempted murder, domestic violence, assault, etc. But even minor monetary crimes will be investigated from just the accusation. If someone left a voicemail at campus security that said “When Dave works the box office, he steals cash.”, that accusation would be investigated. There are many cases I could imagine where someone would not want to be part of the investigation, but would want it to be reported. For example: “When we visited your campus as part of our college tour, Dave Smith raped my child. I don’t want to put my child through any more trauma and will not be part of any investigation. I am recording this complaint in case I need proof of it at a later date.” I’m fairly certain there would be an investigation with something like that. It’s going to be hard to gather evidence and nothing conclusive may be found, but the investigation should be done if for no other reason than to prove they investigated it as much as reasonably possible. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/87 "2019-12-31T02:25:38Z")
Repeat post below finished. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/88 "2019-12-31T02:28:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Where did I suggest this? I’ve made several posts about what I think should be done – which one are you disagreeing with? I didn’t see your earlier post. I don’t think I disagree with anything you said in that. Unfortunately, the reality is that in order to conduct any effective investigation, the accuser is going to have to participate. And the defense is going to do their best to attack the accuser’s credibility. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/89 "2019-12-31T02:29:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I will point out it’s pretty rare for a competent investigation to produce no evidence. In most cases, the investigators are going to find evidence that either corroborates the initial accusation or contradicts it. This is true even in cases where the primary evidence is testimony. Do you have ANY basis for that assertion? I’m pretty amazed by how much is being said in this thread that is just people saying shit. The op is NOT an absurd hypothetical. There are many cases in which an alleged victim does not want to go to the police (due to the likely negative impact on them, inclusive of revictimization, and the knowledge that the it will be his word her word as to consent). And many more in which the evidence is not close enough to the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard that a decision to prosecute is based upon. Colleges are NOT required to report their being told of the alleged incident to the police and an alleged victim is NOT required to report to the police. Colleges are however obligated to adjudicate the case and they are not held to a “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard. The issue of [what standard they should be hel](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/us/devos-colleges-sex-assault.html)d under is not something they make up on their own on the fly. > [@NYT 9/22/17](#): > > Education Secretary Betsy DeVos on Friday scrapped a key part of government policy on campus sexual assault, saying she was giving colleges more freedom to balance the rights of accused students with the need to crack down on serious misconduct. > > The move, which involved rescinding two sets of guidelines several years old, was part of one of the fiercest battles in higher education today, over whether the Obama administration, in trying to get colleges to take sexual assault more seriously, had gone too far and created a system that treated the accused unfairly. > > The most controversial portion of the Obama-era guidelines had demanded colleges use the lowest standard of proof, “preponderance of the evidence,” in deciding whether a student is responsible for sexual assault, a verdict that can lead to discipline and even expulsion. On Friday, the Education Department said colleges were free to abandon that standard and raise it to a higher standard known as “clear and convincing evidence.” … > > … Since many cases come down to one student’s word against another’s, and do not rise to the level of a police investigation, the evidentiary standard has become the main battleground in the nationwide fight over sexual behavior on campus. > > The “preponderance” rule means colleges must find a student responsible if it is more likely than not that the student conducted a sexual act without the partner’s consent. A “clear and convincing” case means it is highly probable the misconduct occurred. > > Even some liberal legal figures took issue with the Obama administration’s approach, arguing that no student should be punished unless the school was more certain that a line had been crossed. [Updated guidance was](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/16/us/politics/betsy-devos-title-ix.html) > [@](#): > > Under the new rules, schools would be required to hold live hearings and would no longer rely on a so-called single investigator model that has become common at colleges. Accusers and students accused of sexual assault must be allowed to cross-examine each other through an adviser or lawyer. The rules require that the live hearings be conducted by a neutral decision maker and conducted with a presumption of innocence. > > Both parties would have equal access to all the evidence that school investigators use to determine facts of the case, and a chance to appeal decisions. Yes **UltraVires** the different standards are based on the odds: beyond reasonable shadow of doubt; highly probable; or more likely than not. Even under Devos colleges are not at the legal standard of … the odds. And have more freedom to decide what response is appropriate if that standard is met. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/90 "2019-12-31T03:12:32Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid;22053630… The op is NOT an absurd hypothetical. There are many cases in which an alleged victim does not want to go to the police (due to the likely negative impact on them, inclusive of revictimization, and the knowledge that the it will be his word her word as to consent). And many more in which the evidence is not close enough to the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard that a decision to prosecute is based upon. Colleges are NOT required to report their being told of the alleged incident to the police and an alleged victim is NOT required to report to the police. Colleges are however obligated to adjudicate the case and they are not held to a “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard. …[/QUOTE] If reported in time, there is almost always some evidence. And that is under Federal law. State laws vary. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/91 "2019-12-31T04:50:32Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > What odds do you base this on? This is assuming that any sort of punishment should be based upon odds. > > Further, if we assume that whatever biased and feminist study that you cite for me about these odds are true, then what’s to stop these odds from changing once unprincipled accusers find out about the new policy that gets unwanted people kicked out of their class and then skews the odds the other way? I don’t see “separate them” as punishment. Have you ever wanted to get someone kicked out of a class? Why? Did they do something horrible to you or something? Uh… right. Seriously, what is the motive to want someone removed from your class? If they didn’t do something horrible to you, and they just smell bad or something, can’t you sit away from them? And you know, if one girl complains about multiple boys, that’s evidence right there. I think you are worrying about problems that don’t happen. Actually, they do. I knew a guy who had to leave his job as an assistant professor because a student made an accusation against him that was much less serious than rape. And everyone knew the accusation was false. The administrator who explained that the college had found him a new job elsewhere told him that they knew it was false, but both the guy and the school would be seriously hurt if she sued. And as best as i could tell, her motive was that she was crazy. So… We already have these Draconian rules. And how many boys get thrown out of their classes? Right. It’s not a real problem. I mean, no doubt there’s somebody somewhere who has been injured, like the guy I knew. But we live in an imperfect world. It’s not a serious problem. In particular, it’s a much less serious problem than the incidence of rape on campuses. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/92 "2019-12-31T06:05:48Z")
The scenario that a student would want the university but not the police to act on a complaint of sexual assault really IS an absurd hypothetical because only about a fourth of campus sexual assault cases are reported to _anyone_. The fears of reporting are not only that reporting won’t result in consequences but that the assailant will try to exact revenge, that he (or, I suppose, she) will encourage friends to get revenge for the reports, and that the university won’t be able to keep the victim safe. If the assailant is a popular athlete, multiply those dangers by ten.\* None of those factors disappear if the assault is reported to the university but not the police. \* And why is there the assumption that a victim would expect the university to expel the accused? Please show me data confirming that this happens frequently and without the victim filing a police report. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/93 "2019-12-31T13:46:05Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > I’d say that’s more a problem with how poorly constructed the hypothetical is (inability or failure to account for all relevant factors) than with how poor the answers are. The deficits in the proposal to automatically “separate” students when one is accused have nothing to do with the deficits in the OP. > [@Odesio](#): > > The broad answers given to broad theoretical questions aren’t designed to answer all possible situations. Answers may differ when additional information is provided. Your broad answer will harm real people in real classes. Maybe you didn’t think it through. Maybe you don’t care. But your “best practice” will harm people. “Broad theoretical question” is no excuse here. No additional information required other than knowing how real schools work. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/94 "2019-12-31T14:02:12Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > One of them drops the class, takes something else instead, and picks up the chemistry class next year. This delays graduation a year. Thus, harm. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Or… One of them finishes the class remotely. The professor makes tapes available, and that student can take the final in a different room. Lab times can be staggered. > > I bet there are other options, too. Lab times can be moved; that’s why I didn’t pick a lab. This class isn’t recorded. Even if it were, this isn’t some state school monster lecture hall; it’s an interactive class. And even if it were a uniderectional lecture, there are reasons people pay more for in-person over remote classes. And even if those were equivalent, this chemistry program involves a relatively strict sequence of classes. So we’re not talking about just one class being disrupted. You bet there are other options. Maybe there aren’t. Maybe this actually is the best one. But we should understand the actual costs instead of dismissing them or, as others have done, blaming them on the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/95 "2019-12-31T14:15:50Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > So… We already have these Draconian rules. If you have data on how common it is to automatically remove an accused from class with an accuser with no evidence beyond the accusation, let’s see them. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/96 "2019-12-31T14:30:23Z")
If you think a jury of your “peers” is terrifying, you’ll love a jury of the SDMB “statisticians”! > [@DSeid](#): > > I’d err on avoiding negative impact to her as in the statistical universe she is more likely the truthful one. > [@DSeid](#): > > If someone has to bear harms from the report it cannot be her. And not only because the odds are she is being truthful but also because of the message it sends to others. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > The odds are higher that he’s lying than that the accuser is. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/97 "2019-12-31T15:32:52Z")
On that note (responding to the above string of quotes), I’m not super enthusiastic about the idea that “accusation made” should mean “the accused is the one to be pulled out of class” is an appropriate response. There is no perfect solution, but the best way to balance the rights of the accused with the well-being of the accuser IMHO would be to inform the accuser of their rights (as a victim) and inform them that, among other things, they may elect to be removed from any classes they share with the accused if they so choose. If that means arranging for a class of one at a time of convenience to the accuser due to limited course offerings, then so be it. But I don’t think an accusation alone should be treated as some sort of “accused ejection button.” ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/98 "2019-12-31T16:53:56Z")
There is an account in the story below that I found very disturbing. What disturbed me was the VICTIM’S account of the “assault” itself, which has all the hallmarks of regret and contains absolutely nothing that I would reasonably see as an assault. And ultimately, the school and authorities agreed. But the accused still suffered great harm and was punished anyway. One of the things he was punished for was allegedly sending his victim a Facebook friend request. He offered investigators access to his account so he could prove he didn’t send the request. They weren’t interested. I mean, no one has EVER gotten a friend request that was spoofed, amirite? > **[The Uncomfortable Truth About Campus Rape Policy](https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/09/the-uncomfortable-truth-about-campus-rape-policy/538974/)** > > At many schools, the rules intended to protect victims of sexual assault mean students have lost their right to due process—and an accusation of wrongdoing can derail a person’s entire college education. “A 2015 study by the education insurance group United Educators, examining 305 claims of assault at 104 schools, found that about 40% of students delay reporting an assault ( there are many valid reasons one might do so, including fear of stigma). The average delay was 11 months and “ in most cases, the victim labeled the incident a sexual assault only after talking with friends or attending prevention training.” This is a quote from the story linked below, which calls out junk science, (similar to the “recovered memories” of the 1980’s), which claims inconsistencies and untruths in the victim account’s should serve as evidence that an assault did occur. Caroline Quillen, President of Davidson College, wrote in an op-ed “that while criminal justice is founded on due process and the possibility of innocence”, ideals she valued, these goals were inherently in conflict with other important goals. Nothing about due process says to a rape survivor “I believe you”. > **[The Bad Science Behind Campus Response to Sexual Assault](https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/09/the-bad-science-behind-campus-response-to-sexual-assault/539211/)** > > Assertions about how trauma physiologically impedes the ability to resist or coherently remember assault have greatly undermined defense against assault allegations. But science offers little support for these claims. I do not want to disenfranchise victims of sexual assault. But one way of doing that is to broaden the definition of sexual assault to the point where it’s almost meaningless. Some of the policies are incredibly infantilizing towards women and assume that the default position is “women don’t want sex and men do”. And they assume that women that are assaulted are so traumatized that it’s unfair to expect to have a coherent thought or consistent stories. Because we are weak, helpless and fall apart so easily. College men must rise to role of protectors and understand that although we might lose all control and drop our panties if a drop of alcohol touches our lips, it is their responsibility to be the grownup and protect us from ourselves. I was a female in the very first class of my college that did NOT impose a curfew on females. We still has restrictions that men didn’t, our dorms locked down at midnight and we had to have security open up for us if we came in later- and if we were intoxicated we’d get into trouble. I fought for the right to be treated as a responsible adult, and I’m not crazy about these new policies. If I go out with a guy and we share a couple of glasses of wine and he’s sweet and charming so I go to bed with him, that isn’t rape. Even if I feel “uncomfortable” about it the next day and don’t want to see him again. Even if I like him but he ignores me and treats me like garbage he’s discarded. Yes, stuff like this happened to me in college. And it was uncomfortable. And ultimately, those situations were learning experiences that taught me to make better decisions. There are lots of situations in life that are inherently uncomfortable. Making someone uncomfortable is not a crime. As an employer, I often had to have uncomfortable conversations with employees. Comfort is not a human right and learning to handle discomfort is a valuable skill. These links were from a three part series in The Atlantic. The third installment dealt with race issues in campus assault. If anyone is interested the link is here. > **[The Question of Race in Campus Sexual-Assault Cases](https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/09/the-question-of-race-in-campus-sexual-assault-cases/539361/)** > > Is the system biased against men of color? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/99 "2019-12-31T17:01:44Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I don’t see “separate them” as punishment. So then throw the accuser out of class. What? It’s not a punishment. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566/100 "2019-12-31T17:21:06Z")
I don’t believe university administrators are law enforcement. The police and judicial system are. Why not have the alleged victim take the complaint to the police? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-handle-this-hypothetical-rape-accusation/845566.md?page=6)