# How would you improve the English language? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 20, 2004, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755 "2004-11-20T00:08:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/21 "2004-11-20T16:51:06Z")
Already a number of good suggestions. I’d like to add one for an inclusive and exclusive form of “we” - as in “you and I and maybe some other people” vs. “me and some other people but excluding you”. ---
**Author:** ![qubed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f07891/32.png) [@qubed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qubed)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/22 "2004-11-20T18:01:25Z")
1. gender-specific words for ‘friend.’ I’m tired of saying female-friend or male-friend all the time (yes, I’m male). 2. Change the word for "w’. Double-U? That’s three syllabels. 2 more than any other letter. It’s got to go. I really hate using ‘dub’ cause that just sounds idiotic. Plus, most letters end with a vowel sound. I was thinking it should be pronounced ‘wee’ but that sounds to similar to the letter ‘v’, so it would get confused a lot. I think we’ll have to settle for the sound ‘woo’. Of course, this just entirely screws up the alphabet song. 3. I second the elimantion of the letter ‘c’. But any reasonable othographic reform would take care of that immediately. 4. Ban the usage of condensed words like 'thru" or ‘u’. If you’re going to the trouble of making the word more phonetic - DO IT RIGHTLY! None of this mangled half way crap. I suppose words like ‘nite’ and ‘lite’ are ok. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/23 "2004-11-20T19:37:04Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > I read a joke a few years ago, where English spelling would be simplified/improved. By the end of the joke, everything was in faux-German. Anyone else see that, and have a link? Johnny, Mark Twain wrote two essays that may be what your are thinking of, and netziens being the pun-loving group they are, these essays are all over the internet: [A plan for improving English spelling](http://www.outyourbackdoor.com/OYB9/culture/culturespell.html) [Germanification of the English language](http://www.hamilton.net.au/twain.html) (long) ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/24 "2004-11-20T19:57:38Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > it At first I thought this was an accidental post . . . then I realized you were probably trying to tell me that “it” is a gender neutral pronoun. If that’s the case, you’re incorrect. “It” is a _neuter_ pronoun. You can only use it for things that have no gender, not for someone who has a gender that is unknown or unspecified. I can’t say, for instance: “I looked across the street and saw a person dressed in a trenchcoat. It paused for a moment, and then hastily walked away.” There’s no good way to say the sentence. If I say “he paused”, you’ll think I could tell the person in the trenchcoat was a man. And saying “he or she paused” just sounds really awkward when you’re talking about a specific person, as opposed to some hypothetical person in the future. (In sentences like “When a customer comes in, greet him or her pleasantly” I find it less objectionable.) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/25 "2004-11-20T20:09:32Z")
> [@SusanStoHelit](#): > > Johnny, Mark Twain wrote two essays that may be what your are thinking of, and netziens being the pun-loving group they are, these essays are all over the internet: > > [A plan for improving English spelling](http://www.outyourbackdoor.com/OYB9/culture/culturespell.html) > > [Germanification of the English language](http://www.hamilton.net.au/twain.html) (long) The first link is close, but the one I’m thinking of sounds like a rabid Nazi speech at the end. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/26 "2004-11-20T20:24:37Z")
> [@June](#): > > 1. change the Roman Alphabet so that each letter would only correspond to a single english phoneme, and no two letters could represent the same phoneme. Also, eliminate case. > > (substitute symbols for your own made-up letters): > > A - as in “apple” > = - “a” as in “same” > % - “u” in “up” > B - same > D - same > E - as in “egg” > ~ - “ee” in “speed” > F - as in “far” > G - as in “gum” > > - > - “ng” in “ring” > H - same > I - as in “in” > J - “s” in “measure” > K - same > L - same > M - same > N - same > O - as in “top” > @ - “oa” in “boat” > P - same > R - same > S - same > $ - “sh” in “shame” > T - same > > # - “th” as in “the” > > : - “th” as in “thick” > U - as in “tube” > V - same > Z - same > > 1. Spell all words phonetically. The following sentence: “I want to go to the store and buy some eggs and a measuring cup so I can make fresh pancakes” would be spelled: “O~ UONT TU GO TU #% ST@R AND BO~ SUM EGZ AND E MEJ%RI+ KUP S@ O~ KAN MEK FRE$ PANKEKS.” > > This would eliminate spelling ambiguity and increase the efficiency of the written language. > > 1. Add a gender neutral pronoun (duh!). > > 2. Eliminate all irregular verbs. No more “drink/drank/drunk” nonsense. Example: “He drinked a beer last night, after he eated some chicken”. > > 3. Eliminate all split verbs, participles, etc. Instead, create new postfixes for each of the different verb tenses and moods. > > Some possible examples: > > “She has called me” = “She callef me” > "She had called me = “She callen me” > “She would have called me” = “She callek me.” > “She will have called me” - “She callev me”. > “She will call me” - “she callep me” > > 1. Eliminate all adverbs and allow adjectives to modify verbs as well as nouns. Example: “He eated fast”. > > 2. Eliminate articles. “Let’s buy a car at the store” would be: “Let’s buy one car at store.” > > 3. “Its” really _should_ be spelled “it’s”. Find some other way of representing contractions without resorting to an apostrophe. How about a hyphen? “It-s a nice day, don-t you think?” > > 4. Simplify the negation of verbs to a single function word (“not” works fine). “He does not like chicken” would become: “He likes not chicken”. > > #AT-Z OL O~ KAN :I+K %V NOU. TU BAD N@U%N KUNSOLTID M~ UEN #E DIZO~ND E+GLI$! O~ :I+K UR O~D~%Z OR T%RIFIK ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/27 "2004-11-20T20:28:53Z")
I’d also like to second the calls for multiple forms of “we”, to differentiate “me and these guys” from “me and you”. And for the inclusion of a you-plural, and the elimination of the letter c. Also, I think that using “snew” for the past tense of snow is a very malkavia idea. ---
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/28 "2004-11-20T20:40:06Z")
Abandon the differences between objective and subjective cases so that all of the ubiquitous “Him and me went to the movies last night” and “He gave the present to she and I” will no longer be the sign of uneducated illiterati. Get rid of the plodding phrases, “Might be able to” and “Might have been able to”, in favor of “Might could”, already so prevalent in some areas. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/29 "2004-11-20T20:51:50Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > If you had the opportunity to change the English language in some way (and all the English speakers of the world had agreed to accept your changes), what changes would you make? You can choose whatever rationale you want for these changes – to make the language easier to learn, to remove ambiguity, to make it possible to express certain kinds of ideas more clearly, etc? > > I’d probably try to eliminate certain ambiguities that just get on my nerves. For instance: > > **(1) I’d add a gender-neutral pronoun.** Some people find it perfectly acceptable to use masculine pronouns exclusively in cases where the gender is unknown or unspecified, and others find this objectionable. But regardless of what side you wall on in that debate, it’s pretty clear that there are times where the lack of a gender neutral pronoun raises questions of whether a person is _trying_ to specify a gender or not. For instance: “I can’t tell you who the witness is, but let me give you this hint: he’s someone very famous.” Is part of the hint that the person is a _he_, or not? As the language stands today, it’s unclear. > > **(2) I’d add more words for the different kinds of in-laws.** Is my sister-in-law my wife’s sister? Or my brother’s wife? Or my wife’s brother’s wife? Who knows? (According to [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sister-in-law), it can mean all three.) > > **(3) I’d add some grouping symbols, like the way parentheses function in math.** In English, of course, parentheses just indicate an aside – they aren’t used to denote “order of operations.” I’m looking for a way to distinguish sentences like the following (found on [this page](http://www.ohiou.edu/~linguist/soemarmo/l270/Notes/Ambigsen.htm)): > > ``` > *The {old men} and women left the room. > The old {men and women} left the room. > > Bill sold the invisible {man's hat}. > Bill sold the {invisible man}'s hat. > > They {don't smoke} or drink. > They don't {smoke or drink.} > > I said {I would see you on Tuesday}. > {I said I would see you} on Tuesday. > > Students {hate annoying} professors. > Students hate {annoying professors}. > > Sue adores men who love {women who don't smoke}. > Sue adores {men who love women} who don't smoke. > > They hit {the man with a cane}. > They {hit the man} with a cane.* > > ``` > > OK, so what are your ideas? So, you want to return to Old English, when we used to declenate nouns, adverbs ans adjectives. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/30 "2004-11-20T20:57:12Z")
> [@Ignatz](#): > > Get rid of the plodding phrases, “Might be able to” and “Might have been able to”, in favor of “Might could”, already so prevalent in some areas. I’ve always used “might maybe.” I like the alliteration. Until the gender neutral word comes along, I’ve mae a study of rewriting sentences so it is not needed; i.e. I can’t tell you who the witness is, but let me give you this hint: someone very famous. I looked across the street and saw a person dressed in a trenchcoat, who paused for a memnt, and then hastily walked away. It’s a rare sentence that can’t be rewritten without the false generic “he.” ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/31 "2004-11-20T21:47:37Z")
I’d like to see each letter have a unique sound and for words to then be spelled like they sound. The existing vowels should have “pure” pronounciations, as in Latin and Spanish. a = “ah” as in hot; we’d need a new letter for the a as in “at” sound e = “eh” as in bed i = “ee” as in Lisa o = “oh” as in boat u = “oo” as in hoot “I” as in "high’ is a dipthong – ai “A” as in “cape” is a dipthong – ei “ow” as in "how – ao “Y” = “i”+other vowel. “year” would be spelled ieir. “you” would be spelled iu. “yaw” would be ia. etc. Only “K” would have the c as in cat sound. Only “S” would have the c as in cellophane sound. “C” would be used for the “ch” sound. The letter Q is gone forever. ---
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/32 "2004-11-21T01:14:39Z")
> [@June](#): > > 1. “Its” really _should_ be spelled “it’s”. Find some other way of representing contractions without resorting to an apostrophe. How about a hyphen? “It-s a nice day, don-t you think?” One of my pedantic peeves. Can you explain the apparent non-sequitur between the first two sentences? And what would you think about just eliminating the apostrorphe/hyphen? Dont you think its worth considering? ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/33 "2004-11-21T10:06:37Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Already a number of good suggestions. I’d like to add one for an inclusive and exclusive form of “we” - as in “you and I and maybe some other people” vs. “me and some other people but excluding you”. A-hem! {Sound of me clearing my throat loudly} ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/34 "2004-11-21T10:38:13Z")
- - - I would re-name the digits (0-9) so that when they were placed in numeric order, they would also be in alphabetic order. Then I would re-name the days of the week and the months of the year, so that they as well would be in the proper numeric order when they were in alphabetic order as well. I like the literal sound idea, where each letter only has one sound it is ever used for. And I also like a tense-numeric idea, where the tense of a verb is related to if it is alphabetically/numerically first, second or third in the series of past-present-future tense (and every verb _would have_ a single-word form for its past, present and future form). There other things that could be renamed “in order” as well but I’m not certaint that there would be any great advantage right off. And I also might switch to that “pronunciated punctuation” from the old Danny Kaye routine. ~ ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/35 "2004-11-21T11:03:19Z")
I’d like to request that the “?!” sometimes used for “excited questions” be merged into a single symbol. It’d come in handy. ---
**Author:** ![sliPshod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@sliPshod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sliPshod)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/36 "2004-11-21T22:28:28Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > I’d like to request that the “?!” sometimes used for “excited questions” be merged into a single symbol. It’d come in handy. It kind of already exists. Unfortunately, the interrobang has fallen into disuse. ‽ [Interrobang](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrobang) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/37 "2004-11-21T22:40:18Z")
I’d simplify, along Chinese lines. Remove declension based on case. “I gave it to him” becomes “I gave it to he”. Remove the definite article. Remove redundant prepositions. Reduce the number of tenses. Remove all tense endings and irregularities. Add simple qualifiers to denote which tense: I went =\> I go past I shall go =\> I go future I would go =\> I go future if I would have gone =\> I go past if The passive tense should be removed. (DYSWIDT?) Introduce the gender-neutral pronoun as mooted. Let’s call it “it”. Qualify if needed by being specific about the subject/object. Simplify all negative with the use of the word “not”. Thus “John went to the cinema. He would have give his other ticket to Jane, but she didn’t want it.” becomes “John go past cinema. John give past if other ticket Jane, but it want not ticket.” ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/38 "2004-11-22T00:14:11Z")
I just want a better word for “that person of the opposite gender who I sleep with to whom I’m not married yet we’ve been together for 8 years and we have a mortgage and a dog and a kid and we’re not gonna split up anytime soon.” “boyfriend” and “girlfriend” suggest a casual relationship; indeed, you can have girlfriends even if you are a girl and aren’t gay. “significant other” is too clumsy and dated. “partner” has been hijacked by the gay community. I’m guessing they’d like something better as well, since it’s difficult to understand if you’re talking about a business partner or a spouse equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![qubed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f07891/32.png) [@qubed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qubed)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/39 "2004-11-22T00:48:49Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Remove the definite article. This would require a fundamental leap in how we construct sentences, because they would be so different. In fact, a lot of your other changes would just be disastrous trying to convert to. I suppose, feasability is not a criteria given by the OP, but it certainly would help. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755/40 "2004-11-22T01:06:34Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > I just want a better word for “that person of the opposite gender who I sleep with to whom I’m not married yet we’ve been together for 8 years and we have a mortgage and a dog and a kid and we’re not gonna split up anytime soon.” [“Leman”](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=leman)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-improve-the-english-language/275755.md?page=3)