# How would you prosecute the wars differently? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 14, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843 "2009-10-14T22:05:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/21 "2009-10-15T03:01:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’d bring the soldiers back from Iraq as soon as possible. Afghanistan we have more justification being in, but I don’t think we can really accomplish much there. Not without staying there for generations at least. I’d probably choose to leave there as well. The War on Terror, I’d discontinue things like warrentless wiretapping ( much less torture ). I’d treat it like the intelligence and police problem it is ( as opposed to a military problem ), but the work of ferreting them out would be done in a civilized fashion that respected human rights. Good points. We just cannot afford to continue the war in Iraq, so bring our boys back. As far as Afganistan, we are not going to win it. The Afganistan war is like the Drug War, we will win the Drug war before we win in Afganistan. Sooner or later we will have to give up, why not now before we lose more American boys? As far as the war on terror, we should immediately stop all immigration, deport all illegals, and not resume letting foreigners in again until we can monitor them in a responsible way, whether it be tourists, H1-B, students, or whatever. If any foreigner is here more than a couple of weeks, somebody should be watching them. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/22 "2009-10-15T03:18:47Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Yeah, no one, including me, has EVER used that before in a thread… > > It’s about as fresh as this whole topic. We’ve been hashing and rehashing the Iraq war for over half a decade here, and Afghanistan periodically rears it’s ugly head as well. What do I think is our best course? Gods know at this point. How would I prosecute the war differently? I’d shrug my shoulders and say ‘we fucked up’ and pull our troops out of Iraq and let it stand or fall on it’s own. If that means issues with our oil down the road then so be it. > > Afghanistan? I’d do the same while telling Europe that it’s up and China that it’s on deck…not our problem to police the world anymore. So long and thanks for all the fish, and all that. > > Of course, if I were God King and could set policy then I’d probably drive the country into the ground with my isolationist tendencies within a few years, so perhaps I wouldn’t be the best choice to decide how the wars should be prosecuted… > > -XT Fuck it. I agree with you. I mean the only thing I really know about military strategy is what I’ve seen in war movies, documentaries on the History Channel and playing RTS games. And since I’m not actually prosecuting the wars I’m not really accountable for my strategies. So I am going with nukes supported by overwhelming air and ground power. In all seriousness though, I don’t think we fight wars with the idea of “winning” them. We fight them as a corporation approaches some new project. That is to say we go through the motions and pretend it is the most important project ever. At least until it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/23 "2009-10-15T03:18:53Z")
We (America) already has an agreement to withdraw our troops, so that’s taken care of. It seems that a lot of terrorist groups in the various countries win over the hearts and minds of the people buy doing things like building hospitals and meeting the needs of the people that the legitimate government doesn’t. So, in Afghanistan I would do a combination of trying to get more Afghans to defend themselves, even if that meant bribing them, and then building roads and hospitals, and other needed structures while having our military guard them. We would turn them over to the Afghans to run (which would mean more employment), withdraw our forces and leave it up to the Afghan people to maintain stability. Of course a huge problem that the Taliban are exploiting is the corrupt government. I’m not sure how that could be fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/24 "2009-10-15T03:38:40Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > As far as the war on terror, we should immediately stop all immigration, deport all illegals, and not resume letting foreigners in again until we can monitor them in a responsible way, whether it be tourists, H1-B, students, or whatever. If any foreigner is here more than a couple of weeks, somebody should be watching them. _ **That** _ would do a rather large amount of damage to the country; more than terrorists likely could. Tourism and the income from it dies, our influence over world culture wanes as no one comes here to be a student or tourist anymore. We no longer gain any advantage from the constant waves of immigrants as we have in the past. America’s population declines as well, with no immigration. I wouldn’t be surprised if other nations forbid American visits in retaliation. And the world in general becomes more hostile to us. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/25 "2009-10-15T03:41:53Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > _ **That** _ would do a rather large amount of damage to the country; more than terrorists likely could. Tourism and the income from it dies, our influence over world culture wanes as no one comes here to be a student or tourist anymore. We no longer gain any advantage from the constant waves of immigrants as we have in the past. America’s population declines as well, with no immigration. > > I wouldn’t be surprised if other nations forbid American visits in retaliation. And the world in general becomes more hostile to us. I have to assume you were just wooshed. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/26 "2009-10-15T03:53:58Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > That would work against leaders that could control their insurrections and if terrorists were concerned about infrastructure. Actually the number of capable terrorists who can plan international strikes is pretty low. It’s expensive and uncommon. If you kill the right people you don’t have to do much more than that. Kill the briliant ringleaders and let the rank and file mill about in purposeless confusion causing the biggest trouble in their local area but without the intellectual drive to enact global jihad. From there you can support the ISI on the back end like we have been for the past 30 years. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/27 "2009-10-15T03:58:03Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I have to assume you were just wooshed. Why? It’s not like anti-immigrant & anti-foreigner sentiment is all that unusual. Her proposal is actually mild compared to others I’ve heard; she didn’t mention anything like building a wall across the borders with automated sentry guns for example. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/28 "2009-10-15T04:36:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Why? It’s not like anti-immigrant & anti-foreigner sentiment is all that unusual. Her proposal is actually mild compared to others I’ve heard; she didn’t mention anything like building a wall across the borders with automated sentry guns for example. Well, that _would_ be in keeping with the established _Aliens_ motif. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/29 "2009-10-15T05:25:35Z")
First of all, I’d stop calling them wars. The wars were over very quickly: we defeated the Taliban, we defeated Saddam Hussein. Now we are an occupying force facing an insurgency. That’s very different from a war. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/30 "2009-10-15T10:24:44Z")
For Iraq, pour a shitload of money into getting infrastructure up and running again, schools, roads, powerstations whatever. But the physical only - if somebody wants to run a Madarasah, go to it. Make the current soldiers proper ambassadors, not “enforcing security” but rather building playgrounds and stuff. Do I have rose coloured glasses? Maybe, but I am an eternal optimist ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/31 "2009-10-15T13:31:29Z")
Only a few people here are thinking creatively. Here’s my approach. Political 1. Admit that we’re running the place. Say ‘Fuck You’ to the current national leadership and put the military in charge openly. 2. Set forth a call for local elections in 2010. This will elect city councils, mayors, treasurers, school boards and so forth. When elected allow those officials to make, via the democratic process, decisions relevant to their positions. Streets, schools, local tax rates, and so forth. Provinces and the national government remain the province of the military. 3. When 2 is accomplish establish a date for provincial elections within a few years. Call it 2012 to keep the apocalyptic types on edge. At that point governors, state legislators, auditors, secretaries of state, and so forth are elected. Allow these people to RUN their provinces. Set tax rates, begin economic development work, large inter-city roads, and so forth. 4. When 3 is accomplished establish a date for federal elections. Call it 2016 for fun. Election a national legislature and chief of state. Allow them political freedom at that point. You’ve built your minor leagues in 2010 and 2012. Now see if the cream can rise to the top. Economic 1. Establish a reliable set of roads and transportation systems between the 10-20 major population centers. 2. Begin the ‘United States Economic Development Bank of Afghanistan’ and begin evaluating small business loans and grants. Try to foster small and medium entrepreneurs to provide employment and create a solid middle class with something to lose if trouble breaks out or continues. 3. When per capita income in a province reaches a certain level transfer the USEDBA to local control with existing accounts. Suddenly you’ve created a financial sector. Military 1. Lock down the top population centers and the roads. 2. Begin training a professional police force. 3. Pull from the police your officer corps for a new, modern military. 4. Present the image, via aggressive marketing, that the military builds character, respect, and is a way out of bumfuck Afghanistan. Soldiers get the girls, the money, and so forth. 5. Allows state governments, when established to maintain a ‘National Guard’ style force of small units for quick response. 6. Allow the federal government to take over and establish an actual Military with professionals from the earlier guard units. Then cut them loose and see if they can make it. This whole concept of grafting national-level institutions onto a anarchic, tribal society is pointless. It’s building the roof before the foundation. Or, in baseball terms, you gotta develop your minor league talent pipeline before the major team can win. ---
**Author:** ![Backcountry\_Medic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Backcountry\_Medic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Backcountry_Medic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/32 "2009-10-15T15:23:25Z")
I’m not sure how much of an area you could expect one warlord to cover in Afghanistan, but for the sake of a WAG, let’s say 300 warlord dispersed across the country could effectively button up security and stop the Taliban/prevent alQueda buildup. I would announce monthlong tryouts for anyone that thought they had the stones to run one of those regions, with the strongest ‘winning’ the regional election. As a benefit for winning, you get a small american monitoring force to make sure you are doing what we want, with a million dollar credit card for your first year. The first year would be a trial period, making sure you are up to the muster of keeping your area clear of the aforementioned undesirables. A stipulation of the contract is that we’re going to be keeping an eye on you and monitoring your progress at all times, but meet expectations and we’ll keep you on the dole for the long time. Give them 30 years and 9 billion, they’ll all be drinking Budweiser, building condos, driving SUVs and laughing at Jack Black movies. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/33 "2009-10-15T16:08:34Z")
There are 33 million Afghanis who have no clue about 911 and are getting their country blown apart. The claim is there are 100 Al Queada in Afghanistan. How does that merit a huge war through their country. They are based in Pakistan and move freely back and forth. By any measure it is a waste of treasury and lives. Pakistan is backing Al Queada . How do we deal with that. We are funneling billions of dollars into Pakistan to quell Ben Ladens troops and they are supporting it. What a mess. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/34 "2009-10-15T16:09:17Z")
I would remove all our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan as quickly as possible. As to the War on Terror, I’d publicly admit that much of the hatred against us is a direct result of our foreign policy. I’d push hard for a Palestinian state and give equal treatment and aid to both Israel and Palestine. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/35 "2009-10-15T16:11:32Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > _ **That** _ would do a rather large amount of damage to the country; more than terrorists likely could. Tourism and the income from it dies, our influence over world culture wanes as no one comes here to be a student or tourist anymore. We no longer gain any advantage from the constant waves of immigrants as we have in the past. America’s population declines as well, with no immigration. > > I wouldn’t be surprised if other nations forbid American visits in retaliation. And the world in general becomes more hostile to us. If America went so crazy as to close the borders like that, I’d be glad I got out when I did and just hand back my passport. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/36 "2009-10-15T17:52:41Z")
Bring them all home. Let Afghanistan and Iraq sort themselves out. Legalise opium so the Afghans have a ready cash crop. Demonstrate to Iran that we will not brook their interference. Probably by destroying their nuclear plants. Note that after Iran called Bush’s bluff an actual demonstration will be necessary. I’m well aware that Iraq will probably split up and I think that will be better in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/37 "2009-10-15T18:30:47Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’d bring the soldiers back from Iraq as soon as possible. Afghanistan we have more justification being in, but I don’t think we can really accomplish much there. Not without staying there for generations at least. I’d probably choose to leave there as well. The War on Terror, I’d discontinue things like warrentless wiretapping ( much less torture ). I’d treat it like the intelligence and police problem it is ( as opposed to a military problem ), but the work of ferreting them out would be done in a civilized fashion that respected human rights. And it wouldn’t be focused on brown Muslims while ignoring white right wing Christians, either; terrorism is terrorism. What justification is that? Over 8 years ago Al Queada had training grounds there. That was long ago. Latest estimates are there are about 100 Al Queada in Afghanistan. How does that justify a war with a country the size of Texas and a population of 33 million? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/38 "2009-10-15T18:41:16Z")
> [@sweeteviljesus](#): > > Let’s pretend that we are not allowed to go back in time. 😕 As opposed to real life, where time travel is indeed possible? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/39 "2009-10-15T18:46:14Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > What justification is that? Over 8 years ago Al Queada had training grounds there. That was long ago. Yes, but the Taliban, which let Al Qaeda do, so is still around. ---
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/40 "2009-10-15T18:47:44Z")
I wanted to avoid posts where people said that I wouldn’t have invaded Iraq in the first place. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843.md?page=3)