# How would you prosecute the wars differently? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 14, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843 "2009-10-14T22:05:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/41 "2009-10-15T18:54:08Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > There haven’t been many Christian Fundamentalists commiting wholesale terrorist attacks (maybe a few crazies like abortion clinic bombers but no wholesale terrorism). Also what if for instance several hundred militants were holed up, would you treat it like police work and negotiate with them or use a military response and bomb the hell out of them. That’s because there aren’t large numbers of Christians getting the short end of the geopolitical stick around the world. If we had the Christian equivalent of Palestine?kashmir/Chechnya etc. going on for the last few decades then we’d have Christian fundamentalist terrorist groups now. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/42 "2009-10-15T18:56:53Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Given that the martyrs started and grew without any bombs, and being bombed from the air did in fact slowly help make terrorism very unpalatable in thsoe areas, your point seems to be blind ideological scat. Muslim civilians haven’t been on the end of military repression around the world on an ongoing basis for decades now? ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/43 "2009-10-15T19:01:55Z")
Desert Nomad gets it right. Try and fix Kashmir, the Pushtuni question too. And in general do what that nice Mr. Gore has been suggesting for over a decade now and use the money we would have spent on energy wars on investment in American alternative energy projects. That and a bit of commonsense financial regulation would have made our current situation a little different to how it is now. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/44 "2009-10-16T00:46:06Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > He’s not a “terrorist” because of the old principle that “terrorist is what the big army calls the little army.” If some little force was in the habit of acting like Bush; bombing people and kidnapping them for torture while making speeches about their own righteousness and how God was on their side, I guarantee we’d call them terrorists. As long as they politically opposed us, that is. Bush did not bomb anyone out of religious fanaticism (Iraq War happened because President Bush GENUINELY thought there were WMDs). > [@](#): > > No, because Nazis and Confederates had entire armies, a government, and an infrastructure to support them. Not a few camps, arms caches and an underground organization. Entirely different things. As for refusing to surrender; they’ll get hungry sooner or later. They’re fanatics,they’re like those folks at say Waco but with RPGs and IEDs. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/45 "2009-10-16T01:14:21Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Bush did not bomb anyone out of religious fanaticism (Iraq War happened because President Bush GENUINELY thought there were WMDs). There’s about as much evidence for this as there is for the WMDs in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/46 "2009-10-16T01:37:04Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Bush did not bomb anyone out of religious fanaticism (Iraq War happened because President Bush GENUINELY thought there were WMDs). I see no reason to buy that he actually believed there were any such things. That’s why our troops bypassed the armories and just about everything else in order to get to the Oil Ministry as fast as possible. That’s why we had to attack as soon as possible and not let the UN finish checking. We _ **knew** _ that Saddam had no such weapons. And everything Bush did was shaped by his religious lunacy. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > They’re fanatics,they’re like those folks at say Waco but with RPGs and IEDs. And? That doesn’t make them any more of a national army. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/47 "2009-10-16T01:43:27Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I see no reason to buy that he actually believed there were any such things. That’s why our troops bypassed the armories and just about everything else in order to get to the Oil Ministry as fast as possible. That’s why we had to attack as soon as possible and not let the UN finish checking. We _ **knew** _ that Saddam had no such weapons. And everything Bush did was shaped by his religious lunacy. Then why didn’t the US government seize all the oil fields and appropriate all the profits to oil companies? Why does the Iraq government still control the oil fields? I actually wish the US had seized the oil fields-at least we’d have lower gas prices. > [@](#): > > And? That doesn’t make them any more of a national army. We must judge enemy groups by their capability not by formatlities. The Al-Qaeda and Taliban are no different then say the Vietcong or Contras or Qunatrill’s Raiders. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/48 "2009-10-16T01:48:19Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Then why didn’t the US government seize all the oil fields and appropriate all the profits to oil companies? Why does the Iraq government still control the oil fields? Because the Iraqis kept blowing things up, and weren’t as tractable as we thought they’d be. Looting the oil WAS part of the original plan; remember how the conquest was going to pay for itself? We didn’t want to admit that what we were doing was no better than mugging on a grand scale, so the Iraqis called our bluff and refused to cooperate with our attempt to loot them. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > We must judge enemy groups by their capability not by formatlities. Exactly; and they don’t have the power or fixed territory of nation-states. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/49 "2009-10-16T02:03:33Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > 😕 > > As opposed to real life, where time travel is indeed possible? What if time travel is an integral part of my military strategy? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/50 "2009-10-16T02:17:05Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because the Iraqis kept blowing things up, and weren’t as tractable as we thought they’d be. Looting the oil WAS part of the original plan; remember how the conquest was going to pay for itself? We didn’t want to admit that what we were doing was no better than mugging on a grand scale, so the Iraqis called our bluff and refused to cooperate with our attempt to loot them. Then why didn’t the US abandon Iraq or at least just guard the oil fields and leave the rest of the country? > [@](#): > > Exactly; and they don’t have the power or fixed territory of nation-states. That doesn’t matter, what matters is what’s happening. If they’re launching military attacks then will rain down a few thousand PATRIOT missiles on them. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/51 "2009-10-16T02:33:14Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Then why didn’t the US abandon Iraq or at least just guard the oil fields and leave the rest of the country? We didn’t leave because that would be admitting failure. And guarding the oil fields wouldn’t work, because it was the oil pipelines they concentrated on; we didn’t have nearly enough people to guard them from the people who live there. And they also refused to just hand it over they way we expected it to, despite us trying to write it into their laws. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > That doesn’t matter, what matters is what’s happening. If they’re launching military attacks then will rain down a few thousand PATRIOT missiles on them. Patriot is an anti air system, so that’s rather unlikely. And slaughtering thousands of innocents to get the one enemy who _ **may** _ be hiding among them is neither moral nor effective. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/52 "2009-10-16T02:47:38Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > We didn’t leave because that would be admitting failure. And guarding the oil fields wouldn’t work, because it was the oil pipelines they concentrated on; we didn’t have nearly enough people to guard them from the people who live there. And they also refused to just hand it over they way we expected it to, despite us trying to write it into their laws. Not really. In 2005-06 the US was virtually demanding for the US to get out of Iraq. Had Bush done so his popularity would have increased dramatically. > [@](#): > > Patriot is an anti air system, so that’s rather unlikely. And slaughtering thousands of innocents to get the one enemy who _ **may** _ be hiding among them is neither moral nor effective. I was using it as a figure of speech. Also what about an area with fifty terrorists and five civilians? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/53 "2009-10-16T02:51:01Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Not really. In 2005-06 the US was virtually demanding for the US to get out of Iraq. Had Bush done so his popularity would have increased dramatically. I doubt that. And at any rate, it would be an admission of failure of the part of Bush, personally. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I was using it as a figure of speech. Also what about an area with fifty terrorists and five civilians? Move in, order them to surrender. What are they going to do, eat rocks? And that is hardly the normal situation anyway. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/54 "2009-10-16T03:02:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > We didn’t leave because that would be admitting failure. And guarding the oil fields wouldn’t work, because it was the oil pipelines they concentrated on; we didn’t have nearly enough people to guard them from the people who live there. And they also refused to just hand it over they way we expected it to, despite us trying to write it into their laws. > > Patriot is an anti air system, so that’s rather unlikely. And slaughtering thousands of innocents to get the one enemy who _ **may** _ be hiding among them is neither moral nor effective. The Patriots did not work. It was military propaganda. They run dog and pony shows all the time. That was a bad one. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/55 "2009-10-16T03:08:14Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I doubt that. And at any rate, it would be an admission of failure of the part of Bush, personally. I assume we can’t be certain until the papers of the Bush Administration are released. > [@](#): > > Move in, order them to surrender. What are they going to do, eat rocks? And that is hardly the normal situation anyway. They’re fanatics. They can’t be rationally delt with. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/56 "2009-10-16T03:12:59Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The Patriots did not work. Well, yes and no. They DID work as designed - except they were being used for a purpose for which they weren’t designed. They were designed as point defence weapons; to do enough damage to prevent an aimed missile from hitting a relatively small target like a base. They weren’t designed to completely destroy nearly unaimed missiles like SCUDs aimed at a city sized target. It didn’t do any good to knock a missile aside when it would just hit another part of the city, and wasn’t aimed at any specific spot anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/57 "2009-10-16T03:15:00Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > They’re fanatics. They can’t be rationally delt with. Nonsense; we can and have taken fanatics alive in the past, without indiscriminate slaughter. And what makes you think they are all fanatics? Hatred for America is hardly an irrational position for our victims; we SHOULD be hated by much of humanity. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/58 "2009-10-16T04:50:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Yes, but the Taliban, which let Al Qaeda do, so is still around. Taliban runs at least 85 percent of the country. What do you plan to do about that? To accomplish the goal of eliminating the Taliban would require a war bigger that Iraq. Then if you managed to do it, which is doubtful. you still have to deal with Al Queada which is not in Afghanistan but Pakistan. So now do you just go ahead and attack Pakistan, the Al Queada stronghold who actually has nukes? You just blew trillions of dollars and killed a hell of a lot of people. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/59 "2009-10-16T11:23:10Z")
How about we install George W. Bush and Dick Cheney as the new President of Iraq and Afghanistan? Quietly remove the US presence after they “take office” and maybe leave the gates to the Presidential palace unlocked so the locals can express their joy and gratitude as they welcome their new liberators. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843/60 "2009-10-16T13:23:40Z")
> [@The\_Controvert](#): > > How about we install George W. Bush and Dick Cheney as the new President of Iraq and Afghanistan? Quietly remove the US presence after they “take office” and maybe leave the gates to the Presidential palace unlocked so the locals can express their joy and gratitude as they welcome their new liberators. We can run a nice big US flag up the building’s flagpole too as a gesture of US goodwill towards the Afghans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prosecute-the-wars-differently/513843.md?page=4)