# How would you prove you're a citizen? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 19, 2024, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450 "2024-09-19T01:46:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2024, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/61 "2024-09-19T23:37:28Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Am I wrong in thinking that a US passport is the only document a citizen can obtain and **carry with them** that proves they are an actual US citizen? My passport is my go-to as it proves both citizenship and identity. Really helps when filling out new employment forms. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/62 "2024-09-20T00:34:02Z")
A friend of mine has a naturization certificate, proving she’s a US citizen. She certainly doesn’t carry it around. Interestingly, a few years back when she needed to renew her driver’s license, some database didn’t have her citizenship status - and apparently her original naturalization certificate wasn’t enough for some bureaucrat or other and they were being extra-special stubborn. She wound up getting her congressman’s office involved. Me, born in the US: the only times I’ve needed to prove citizenship have been stuff like applying for clearance, and for a passport. I think noncitizens can do both of those things; I can’t speak to what they would require. But IIRC I had to provide a copy of my birth certificate for the passport, and possibly at least one clearance application. A Social Security card is useful for some purposes but does NOT prove citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/63 "2024-09-20T01:17:43Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Note the idiotic cycle. DL → BC → DL. This is a problem I and others at my legal aid firm deal with all the time. In fact we have an entire team of attorneys and paralegals whose speciality is ID recovery. Because so many of our clients, and especially our homeless clients, fall into the hole where they really do need a lawyer to help claw their way out of obscura _just so they can begin to get help with what they really need help with_. Legal permanent residents who lose their wallet have their own version of this problem. They lose their green card and their drivers license together, they need their green card to prove lawful presence for a license, but in order to replace their green card they have to show up to a biometrics appointment (fingerprints and a picture) _with a government-issued photo ID_ (which just strikes me as odd: why bother with the fingerprints, then? Oh, right, to run an FBI background check every 10 years to see if they are deportable!). Thankfully, I work exclusively with veterans, and one things homeless veterans _do_ tend to have, especially when referred to us by a nearby shelter for homeless veterans, is a Veterans Health Identification Card that has their picture on it and is issued by the VA, a federal agency. But I’m just waiting to get the client (I haven’t been at this that long) who doesn’t even have that. I honestly don’t know what the procedure is, or if there is one, to get around that. Bonus points: it’s a misdemeanor for an LPR to not have prof of their LPR status on them. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/64 "2024-09-20T01:20:30Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > …and apparently her original naturalization certificate wasn’t enough for some bureaucrat or other… The success/efficacy of the solutions, suggestions, answers, ideas, etc., given in this thread depend upon connecting with a bureaucrat who is well-informed. IOW who doesn’t have a chip on their shoulder or their head up their ass. Preferably they also got a good night’s sleep and ate a hearty breakfast. And maybe got laid the night before. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/65 "2024-09-20T01:25:56Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > The success/efficacy of the solutions, suggestions, answers, ideas, etc., given in this thread depend upon connecting with a bureaucrat who is well-informed. IOW who doesn’t have a chip on their shoulder or their head up their ass. And isnt a MAGA bigot. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/66 "2024-09-20T01:26:29Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > Since the thread is in FQ (though it doesn’t seem to belong here), the factual answer might be on [this page](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/how-apply/citizenship-evidence.html), which lists the various ways one can provide evidence of US citizenship when applying for a passport. Aside from the obvious (birth certificate, certificate of naturalization, previous passport), one can provide a baptism certificate, US Census record or even a family Bible. > > How does a baptism certificate or family bible affirm citizenship? It might not always, but there is a section of the Immigration and Nationality Act that creates a rebuttable presumption that a \*child found in the US under the age of 5 is a US citizen. INA 301(f) (8 U.S.C. 1401(f)) to be exact. So it could be evidence you were in the US from the age of 5 or younger. \*ETA: Caveat - parents have to be unknown. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/67 "2024-09-20T02:01:43Z")
I believe that’s covered in the part after “IOW.” 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/68 "2024-09-20T03:51:03Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I believe that’s covered in the part after “IOW Mostly, but still… Citizenship test for voting is 100% GOP Voter suppression. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/69 "2024-09-20T03:55:41Z")
And yet, if they implement it, it will prevent some percentage of his base from voting. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/70 "2024-09-20T04:01:30Z")
Sure, they know that, maybe out of every 1000 votes they suppress, 300 might be GOP votes. Its a numbers game. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/71 "2024-09-20T04:11:17Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > Registering to vote requires an affirmation that you are eligible. I just tick the box on my tax form and I get on the voters’ roll. Don’t have to provide any evidence of citizenship. Then, before the federal election, a Voter card arrives in the mail. I take that to the poll, they cross my name off the list, and I vote. There were a couple of elections, after I moved, where I didn’t get the Voter card. I guess it took a while for my change of address to get registered. I just went to the poll and filled out a form that I was eligible to vote. One of my neighbours saw me filling out the form and asked if I needed her to swear me in, but the poll worker said my own declaration was sufficient. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/72 "2024-09-20T04:20:10Z")
I know all the words to most of the songs by Stompin’ Tom and the Canadian David Wilcox? Or what Northern Piper just said. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/73 "2024-09-20T08:27:38Z")
The Canadian Citizenship Test is just a single question 1. Is Canada A. A melting pot? B. A mixed salad? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/74 "2024-09-20T14:35:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Citizenship test for voting is 100% GOP Voter suppression. Uh-yup. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/75 "2024-09-20T15:14:57Z")
It’s something they know they can probably get away with, unlike the time-honored classics of their forebears’ days (literacy test, poll tax, etc.). As to the original question, I’d just use my RealID driver’s license. Yeah, I know that has loopholes which undermine its reliable utility as proof of citizenship, but let them worry about that. Not my problem. My DoD retiree ID card is ancient and has no citizenship information at all. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/76 "2024-09-20T15:27:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Nope. It was 100% a racist idea. It was a reaction as CA and other states would give drivers license to undocumented aliens. It was pushed as a security idea for flying, but since you can fly on ANY passport, it isnt. My point was only that a RealID driver license does not prove citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/77 "2024-09-20T16:09:02Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > …let them worry about that. Not my problem. It will be your problem if the voter registrar rejects it as proof of citizenship. > [@gnoitall](#): > > My DoD retiree ID card is ancient and has no citizenship information at all. The new ones don’t either. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/78 "2024-09-20T17:01:18Z")
[As I pointed out](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/15), a non-citizen NGID has a blue bar. The only danger is the presumption that the lack of a blue bar guarantees citizen status of the cardholder, since it only reflects the citizenship of the sponsor. But since I’m the sponsor, it would work. But AFAIK, the point of the thread is not “suffer the futility of trying to prove your eligibility to vote”. It’s literally “how would you prove your citizenship in any particular situation it’s called for”, which I have done in good faith. No one is interested in “gotchas”. They will always exist in this corrupt system but I’m not going to contort myself to plan a clever hypothetical way past them, especially since there are so few ways that you can guarantee to be effective in the face of committed malfeasance. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/79 "2024-09-20T17:30:14Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > No one is interested in “gotchas”. They will always exist in this corrupt system but I’m not going to contort myself to plan a clever hypothetical way past them, especially since there are so few ways that you can guarantee to be effective in the face of committed malfeasance. I don’t understand this comment in reply to my comment. You seem to suggest I was promoting hanky-panky. Did I miss something? I can be totally clueless sometimes. Well, often. As you correctly point out, the point of the thread is to answer the question > [@gnoitall](#): > > “how would you prove your citizenship in any particular situation it’s called for” the particular situation being if a second Trump administration decides people need to prove they are citizens of the USA in order to register to vote in federal elections and then to vote in those elections. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450/80 "2024-09-20T17:32:28Z")
And I answered. I am not entertaining the hypothetical of a bad actor committed to disenfranchising me, because it’s going to happen or not, no matter how many hoops I jump. “Here’s my RealID.” “That doesn’t prove anything.” “Here’s my Next Generation US ID with no blue bar.” “Not good enough.” “Ok, here’s my birth certificate equivalent, a State Department form FS-240 reporting my birth overseas as a US citizen.” “Oh you were born outside the US like Obama? NEXT.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-prove-youre-a-citizen/1007450.md?page=5)