# How would you rank the Patriots among the top five NFL teams? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 6, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178 "2017-02-06T18:09:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/1 "2017-02-06T18:09:22Z")
5 Super Bowl championships. That says a lot. I wasn’t a early Patriots fan. But they’ve grown on me as the years have passed. It’s so rare to see a championship dynasty like this. I watched Staubach and the Cowboys in junior high school. That was the first time that I saw a team that was consistently good season after season. My personal favorite was San Francisco during the Joe Montana era. It was the only time in my life that I rearranged my schedule to be home to see those fantastic regular season games. The relationship between Tom Brady and Bill Belichick reminds me of Joe Montana and Bill Walsh. The special relationship between coach and quarterback lead to their greatness. Individually these men would have never achieved so much. Belichick failed miserably Coaching Cleveland. Brady was not appreciated at Michigan. A backup to Brian Griese for two seasons. Brady has excelled under Belichick’s system. How would you rank the top five NFL teams? A few candidates Certainly the Giants during the Lombardi and Landry era fit in there. Maybe the Giants during Bill Parcels tenure? The Cowboys with Coach Landry and Roger Staubach San Francisco during the Bill Walsh and Montana era. Maybe Green Bay with Mike Holmgren and Bret Favre. Holmgren was the 49’s offensive coordinator during their glory days. Patriots with Bill Belichick and Tom Brady ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/2 "2017-02-06T18:29:22Z")
They’ll be listed as one of the best in the history books but unfortunately with an asterisk next to their entry. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/3 "2017-02-06T18:29:31Z")
I nearly forgot George Seifert took over the 49ers after Walsh left. That makes the 49er era even more incredible. They sustained it with two coaches and even into the Steve Young era. Five Superbowls between 1981 and 1994. Walsh won three and Seifert won two. I’d really have a hard time ranking the Patriots much above the 49ers. The 49ers played at the same time as the Giants under Bill Parcels. That was an incredible period for the NFL. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/4 "2017-02-06T18:36:46Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > They’ll be listed as one of the best in the history books but unfortunately with an asterisk next to their entry. In a few years, no one will care about that alleged asterisk. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/5 "2017-02-06T19:20:25Z")
Lombardi’s Packers need to be on the short list. 6 championship game appearances in 8 seasons (1960-1967), with five NFL championships, plus the first two Super Bowls. Ten players from those teams are in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, as well as Lombardi himself. Also: the 1970s Steelers: four Super Bowl wins in six seasons. Nine members of those teams are in the Hall, plus coach Chuck Noll. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/6 "2017-02-06T19:27:29Z")
Another team to at least have in the conversation: the Cleveland Browns of the late '40s and early '50s, with Paul Brown as coach and Otto Graham as QB. They dominated the AAFC, winning all four of that league’s championships, before being merged into the NFL for 1950. They then won the NFL championship in their first year in the league, and followed that up by appearing in the championship game for the next five seasons, as well (winning twice more). ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/7 "2017-02-06T19:48:50Z")
I would still rank the Packers as #1, with the Pats now replacing the Steelers in the #2 position. Then the Steelers and the 49’ers. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/8 "2017-02-06T20:30:49Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I would still rank the Packers as #1, with the Pats now replacing the Steelers in the #2 position. Then the Steelers and the 49’ers. I could possibly debate order of those four, but I agree that those are very probably the top four teams. I also think about it in terms of decades, and which was the dominant team in each decade. 1950s: Cleveland Browns 1960s: Green Bay Packers 1970s: Pittsburgh Steelers 1980s: San Francisco 49ers 1990s: Dallas Cowboys (maybe\*) 2000s: New England Patriots - - The Cowboys won three Super Bowls in four seasons ('92, '93, '95), but then fell apart as their core players aged, and the Jerry Jones / Jimmy Johnson “marriage” soured. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/9 "2017-02-06T20:40:18Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I could possibly debate order of those four, but I agree that those are very probably the top four teams. > > I also think about it in terms of decades, and which was the dominant team in each decade. > > 1950s: Cleveland Browns > 1960s: Green Bay Packers > 1970s: Pittsburgh Steelers > 1980s: San Francisco 49ers > 1990s: Dallas Cowboys (maybe\*) > 2000s: New England Patriots 2010s: New England Patriots ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/10 "2017-02-06T20:59:12Z")
> [@robby](#): > > 2010s: New England Patriots It seems likely, with 3 Super Bowl appearances (and two wins) so far. But, there are still three seasons left to go in the decade, and so, I didn’t want to close that book yet. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/11 "2017-02-06T21:03:49Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I would still rank the Packers as #1, with the Pats now replacing the Steelers in the #2 position. Then the Steelers and the 49’ers. This. As noted, the Pack’s 6 championships in 8 seasons has not yet been eclipsed. Pats #2, Steelers #3, 49’ers #4. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/12 "2017-02-06T22:52:15Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > This. As noted, the Pack’s 6 championships in 8 seasons has not yet been eclipsed. Pats #2, Steelers #3, 49’ers #4. Which version of the Packers? Lombardi? Or modern day? Most of Lombardi’s era was prior to the Superbowl. They won Superbowl II his last season. They won six conference championships between 1960 -1967. A bunch of division championships. > **[Green Bay Packers](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Bay_Packers)** > > Independent (1919–1920) > National Football League (1921–present) > The Green Bay Packers are a professional American football team based in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Competing in the National Football League (NFL) as part of the National Football Conference (NFC) North division, the Packers are the third-oldest franchise in the NFL, established in 1919. They are the only non-profit, community-owned major league professional sports team based in the United States.\[a\] Since 1957, home games have been... ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/13 "2017-02-06T23:14:56Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Which version of the Packers? Lombardi? Or modern day? > > Most of Lombardi’s era was prior to the Superbowl. They won Superbowl II his last season. > > They have won a bunch of Conference championships. > > [Green Bay Packers - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Bay_Packers) Lombardi. I’m aware of what Lombardi did, and why the Lombardi trophy is named what it is. Packers won 6 **NFL** championships in 8 years under Lombardi. 13 **NFL** championships since their founding. No team has won more **NFL** championships. Super bowls came along decades after the **NFL** started playing championship games. The first two weren’t even considered big deals, since they were played against the upstart, inferior AFL, by the reigning **NFL** champion. (said ‘inferior’ status eventually laid to rest by Joe Namath) Or do you wish to only consider the 5 top **NFL** teams since the Super Bowl began? A somewhat arbitrary division and a bit short sighted, IMHO (perhaps because I cut my teeth on football before the Superbowl came along), but defensible. If so, the Pack really isn’t in the running for the top 5 spots, having only won 4 Superbowls. Qadgop the Packerfan, **NFL** owner (3 shares in the family!) 😃 [sub]I like bolding **NFL** [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/14 "2017-02-06T23:24:05Z")
I don’t know very much about football prior to the 1970’s. But certainly those early teams still count in picking the top 5. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/15 "2017-02-06T23:46:17Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Which version of the Packers? Lombardi? Or modern day? > > Most of Lombardi’s era was prior to the Superbowl. They won Superbowl II his last season. > > They won six conference championships between 1960 -1967. A bunch of division championships. > > [Green Bay Packers - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Bay_Packers) They won 5 NFL championships in the '60s ('61, '62, '65, '66, '67). They would have won 5 Super Bowls, had they been held then, but the AFL was still too green to matter. Calling their pre-Super Bowl NFL Championships “conference” championships is just revisionist BS. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/16 "2017-02-06T23:57:23Z")
Sorry, sorry! Pack won 5 titles in 7 years under Lombardi. I misremembered the outcome of the Packers-Eagles 1960 championship game. Had to take my nap during the final quarter, I guess. :o ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/17 "2017-02-07T06:15:44Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Sorry, sorry! Pack won 5 titles in 7 years under Lombardi. I misremembered the outcome of the Packers-Eagles 1960 championship game. Had to take my nap during the final quarter, I guess. :o Can’t easily forget that game and its result: foggy as heck in the fourth quarter. Packers need to score to win. Starr completes a pass to Jim Taylor, and Taylor heads for the goal line. Out of the fog looms Chuck Bednarik, the only Eagle between Taylor and the win. Bednarik wrestles Taylor to the ground, then lays on him until the gun sounds to end the game. Ugh. Only Lombardi playoff loss with the Pack. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/18 "2017-02-07T14:35:35Z")
Patriots, Bruins and Celtics! Way to go. ---
**Author:** ![Lorne\_Armstrong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@Lorne\_Armstrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorne_Armstrong)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/19 "2017-02-10T07:04:53Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I would still rank the Packers as #1, with the Pats now replacing the Steelers in the #2 position. Then the Steelers and the 49’ers. I’ve got to ask, why the apostrophe in 49ers? It’s 49ers, not 49’ers. I see people write it like that all the time and I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Lorne\_Armstrong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@Lorne\_Armstrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorne_Armstrong)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178/20 "2017-02-10T07:25:45Z")
I’m going to argue that the Patriots are the least impressive of all the dynasties mentioned so far. The salary cap era has robbed the league of great teams. I don’t think the Patriots have ever beaten anybody that good. For one thing, their division has been a joke for their entire run. And in the pre-salary cap days, there were always a group of teams talented enough to become dynasties. The Steelers had to contend with Oakland and Miami, both of which were good enough to have won multiple super bowls. They also had to face Dallas twice in the super bowl. The '80s had some of the greatest teams of all time. The NFC had the 49ers, Giants, Bears, and Redskins. To win a super bowl at that time meant you had to beat one of those teams. What franchises today offer competition like that? Who have the Patriots beaten who were all-time greats? And of course the NFL constantly changes rules to create more passing. The game is different today to make scoring easier. And now a flag is thrown if you barely touch the receiver or hit the QB too hard. Take the Patriots in a time machine back to the '70s or '80s and they get their asses handed to them. And finally, they reached their first super bowl in this era because of one of the worst calls in NFL history. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-rank-the-patriots-among-the-top-five-nfl-teams/779178.md?page=2)