# How would you SAVE America? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 1, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067 "2012-01-01T18:53:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/41 "2012-01-02T04:25:47Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Do away with the War On Drugs completely and absolutely. Put every DEA agent and such to work picking up trash by the freeways. We could abolish the ATF while we are at it too,. > [@Ulfreida](#): > > 1. through legal means, return to (an improved) version of the Fair & Balanced idea of news. This could mean more government-supported media like the BBC model. Non-factual fake news outlets such as Fox News made impossible at least on a large scale. Get rid of MSNBC too that and college professors like Chomsky who hysterially denounce America while earning their living by siphoining off tax payers’ money in public university. Some of my personal “reform” ideas. -Taxes (both income and corporate) shall be simplified into a few brackets with no loopholes, deductions, etc. -Barring national disaster, a national debt goals are set up for every year to reduced by a certain amount of money. If Congress fails to act on this they will get voted out en masse both GOP and Democrat -All pork barrel spending will be banned and infrastructure spending will focus on those that can benefit the most people as determined by professional statiscians. -The current Obamacare bill will have its individual mandate clause struck off but otherwise kept as is for a few years to see if it will work -Medicare and Social Security retirement ages shall be raised for jobs not involving physical labour -Nuclear power plants shall be built at tremendously fast rates, by 2050 at least 80% of America’s electirc power will be non-fossil fuel. -Abortion shall be banned for all reasons except to save the life of the mother and rape/incest by constitutional amendment if need be -Marijuana shall be legalized and taxed by the federal government -It shall be a crime to distribute, shall, grow, or produce but not to own hard drugs -The drinking age will be lowered to 18 -America shall set target goals to return to the Moon and land men on Mars -A foreign policy doctrine shall be adopted stating basically no acts of genocide or ethnic cleansing shall be tolerated anywehre in the globe and the United States shall act to stop it immediately unilaterally if necessary ---
**Author:** ![ataraxy22](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ataraxy22/32/307_2.png) [@ataraxy22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ataraxy22)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2012, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/42 "2012-01-02T05:15:24Z")
I like some of the above, so won’t try to repeat them. Punitive taxes on the rich including tax brackets for passive personal income at the same level as salaried income. Scale way back all the rah rah America is the Best Ever jingoism, include all the mindless “Support our Troops” stuff that’s gotten to be almost a religion in this country. It’s a sacrifice and a tragedy, but dying in a war of aggression isn’t doing anything to make Americans more free in their own country. Similarly, rename the Department of Defense to “the Department of Offense” to more accurately reflect its purpose. Reform elections in manners to encourage the formation of third, fourth, fifth, etc. parties, that aren’t beholden to evil rich people like the Koch Brothers. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2012, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/43 "2012-01-02T06:12:21Z")
Qin! I like the professional statisticians replacing pork idea, & the tiered retirement age is worth considering; but my inner environmental health major is leery of any politician pushing a hurried nuke plant buildup. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2012, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/44 "2012-01-02T06:16:39Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Qin! I like the professional statisticians replacing pork idea, & the tiered retirement age is worth considering; but my inner environmental health major is leery of any politician pushing a hurried nuke plant buildup. Well, at least his abortion ban would become moot, what with all those radiation-poison spontaneous miscarriages. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2012, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/45 "2012-01-02T07:05:50Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > I wasn’t aware it was one or the other. In fact, the most successful countries seem to have some mix of the two. It’s kind of like the choice presented to the American people over health care reform; it’s either what we have now or British SOCIALIST medicine. Like the rest of the developed world disappeared. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2012, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/46 "2012-01-02T07:35:07Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > 1. make a law that candidates for office can **only** use specific government-allocated funds (amount determined by population to be represented) to campaign with – not their own, not corporations’ secret monies, not the war chests of parties. > > 2. through legal means, return to (an improved) version of the Fair & Balanced idea of news. This could mean more government-supported media like the BBC model. Non-factual fake news outlets such as Fox News made impossible at least on a large scale. > > 3. put the issue of climate change at the top of the agenda of every department of government. > > 4. Universal single-payer healthcare. > > 5. Real and massive job-stimulus spending (emphasis on #3, above). > > 6. Reducing American military forces abroad to, say, proportionately, pre-WWII levels. All good ideas. Some of them would get more than 51% of citizen support; too bad our “majority rules democracy” isn’t letting the majority rule. > [@leahcim](#): > > (1) [Instant runoff voting](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting) – Makes it so you can have a meaningful third party that’s not a “spoiler”. > > (2) Make voting mandatory – Right now, policies with broad based but tepid support lose out to policies that pander to specific groups. This will make it so if you want to get elected, you need to get 50% to prefer you to the other guy, instead of just pandering to a few key demographics who will turn up to vote disproportionately if you suck up to them enough. > > (3) Eliminate the Senate and Electoral college. There is no need for these bodies except to deliberately hinder democracy by giving power out of proportion to population. My thinking has evolved recently, and I’ll agree that mandatory voting and elimination of Electoral system are probably good ideas. As is often the case, for rationalists to identify solutions is easier than getting them adopted. I hope our Ninja squad takes note that: Corporate money influencing elections is one of the biggest problems, and there the Supremes are more to blame than Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/47 "2012-01-02T20:06:03Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Some of what I’ll say has been said already. > > Politics: > [ul] > [li]Change elections to allow for viable third party candidates. This could be instant runoff or something else. Just as long as we have more choices.[/li][li]Means test farm subsidies.[/li][li]Means test Social Security.[/li][li]Although I have no problem with people being less reliant on government, right now charities cannot replace government programs like Medicare, food stamps, etc… And cutting these programs is only hurting the poor. So stop cutting the programs and start raising taxes to pay for them and close state and federal budget gaps. Then make it so that before being able to eliminate any such program, one or more charities must be built up to be able to afford to take over and continue such services.[/li][li]Reduce the rights of corporate “persons”. Eliminating them would defeat the purpose of forming a corporation, but limits on campaign contributions and political influence are reasonable.[/li][/ul] > Economics: > [ul] > [li]Eliminate loan bundling.[/li][li]Eliminate conditions that make it more profitable for lenders to foreclose on houses instead of working with the owners for modified payments.[/li][li]The unemployment problem is only a problem for those of us who are unemployed. For companies it’s no problem at all. [They won’t](http://chicagoist.com/2011/09/07/now_hiring_unemployed_need_not_appl.php) [hire the unemployed](http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2011-02-16-job-application_N.htm). Since we can’t force companies to hire the unemployed the federal and state governments need to find more incentives to bribe companies into hiring them.[/li][li]We need to stop giving companies tax breaks on the premise that it will cause job creation. Job creation will be very slow for a while, [and it’s not high taxes that are the problem](http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/story/2011-12-14/CEO-outlook-hiring/51918276/1).[/li][/ul] > Foreign policy > [ul] > [li]Have the War Powers Resolution declared constitutional.[/li][li]People captured on the battlefield are prisoners of war and subject to the Geneva conventions. People arrested off of the battlefield are subject to a fair trial and writ of habeas corpus. All other prisoner classifications are to be eliminated.[/li][/ul] what they said. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/48 "2012-01-02T21:58:48Z")
I don’t know that we need to SAVE America in the sense that “if we don’t do thus-and-so, we won’t be here in a hundred years”. The only issues I know of that approach that level of seriousness are the deficit/debt, and the coming crash in entitlements spending. (They are essentially the same issue.) It can be addressed in a number of ways, but my preferred approach would be [list=A][li]A freeze on all government spending until the economy grows out of the deficit [_]a balanced budget amendment when we do, and [_]means testing for Social Security. [/list][/li] We may get a de facto freeze on spending if Congress goes Republican in November and Obama gets re-elected. If we don’t have responsibility at the top, at least we might get gridlock. But we won’t get a balanced budget amendment. The instant the current crisis fades into memory, we will get a new load of nitwits eager to spend their way to re-election. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/49 "2012-01-02T22:00:17Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > Australia has mandatory voting, with vote by mail for people who are away, and I believe also a “none of the above” box which you can check off. I’ve never seen a “none of the above” option on a ballot paper in Australia. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/50 "2012-01-02T22:05:45Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > Actually, I would second this. I would abolish America’s presidential system and make it more like Canada’s parliamentary system: ceremonial Head of State (reinstate the monarchy if they ever so wished), with a government responsible and comprised from the Lower House of Congress, and an Upper House representing States but only able to delay legislation. If we’re gonna do it that way, might as well **merge** with Canada and become the Commonwealth, or Kingdom, of North America (member of the Commonwealth of Nations). Hmm . . . Does that mean we can’t go to war without the Queen’s/Governor-General’s permission? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/51 "2012-01-02T22:17:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t know that we need to SAVE America in the sense that “if we don’t do thus-and-so, we won’t be here in a hundred years”. The only issues I know of that approach that level of seriousness are the deficit/debt, and the coming crash in entitlements spending. (They are essentially the same issue.) :ahem: I’m more concerned about overfishing than pension funds at this point. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/52 "2012-01-02T22:37:07Z")
No government pension exceeds $100,000. Service charges, account fees, cannot exceed actual costs. Any realized profit will be heavily taxed. X prize solutions for intractable problems. Let junior high, high school, college, uni kids compete to find fair and equitable solutions. Vote on best 3. Free education for anyone involved in top three offerings. No one who has been a lobbyist can ever hold public office. Make every oath of office have enough bite that they tremble when they take it. Zero tolerance for conflict of interest at any level, violation means immediate disqualification for ever holding public office again. Criminalization of white collar crime, for true. Dodgy accounting, someone’s going to jail, everyone is losing their certification. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2012, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/53 "2012-01-02T23:30:25Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > :ahem: I’m more concerned about overfishing than pension funds at this point. You think overfishing is a greater threat to the US than the the entitlements crash? _backs slowly towards the exit while smiling reassuringly…_ Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/54 "2012-01-02T23:50:06Z")
Yup. I do. Extinction of ocean fisheries in the next 40 years,\* versus\* having to raise taxes so the General Fund can pay back Social Security, and cut Medicare entitlements? No contest. Biology is physically real, money is just a social technology. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/55 "2012-01-03T01:05:53Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Yup. I do. > > Extinction of ocean fisheries in the next 40 years Much of it is the fault of the Chinese and other countries not just the USA. Not to mention overfishing does not mean the total destruction of fisheries in less than a half-century. One need only look at Paul Erlich to be sceptical of that of stuff ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/56 "2012-01-03T03:08:02Z")
Repeal all laws that favor non-productive activities like finance and lawyering over productive activities like manufacturing and research. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/57 "2012-01-03T03:32:45Z")
I find it amusing that people will dismiss our obvious fisheries problems because Paul R. Ehrlich was off in his calculations, but still expect the Second Coming, which has never come true, and after this many failed deadlines, presumably never will. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/58 "2012-01-03T03:43:48Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > I wasn’t aware it was one or the other. In fact, the most successful countries seem to have some mix of the two. In the US socialism has been so demonized that any portion of the US being in favor of it instead of screaming in terror and horror is shocking news. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/59 "2012-01-03T04:09:53Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > In the US socialism has been so demonized that any portion of the US being in favor of it instead of screaming in terror and horror is shocking news. Heck, it’s been so demonized that even unsupported and specious _accusations_ of “socialism” get coverage. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2012, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067/60 "2012-01-03T10:29:14Z")
Putting Murdoch in Guantanamo indefinitely might help - hell, you don’t even need to charge American citizens with offences these days. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-save-america/608067.md?page=4)