# How would you solve the Joker problem? (Gotham) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 23, 2006, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810 "2006-06-23T01:41:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ululate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/59ef9b/32.png) [@ululate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ululate)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/41 "2006-06-23T18:00:45Z")
[QUOTE=MGibson] Let’s say I get the drop on the Joker when he breaks into my home as a temporary refuge from being chased by Batman, what’s my next move? [/QUOTE] No need to bring the general public into this; what happens every time Batman tracks down and recaptures the Joker after yet another killing spree? He’s shackled and escorted back to an easily escapable situation involving unnecessarily slow-moving parts. By now, the proverbial _“cop’s gun that just went off”_ would’ve made the back of some Gotham police cruiser look like that scene from **Pulp Fiction**. Except his finger would’ve slipped several times. Possibly including a bit in the middle where he paused to reload. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/42 "2006-06-23T18:14:46Z")
> [@](#): > > They did that (although the charges weren’t trumped up, he really was dabbling in international terrorism at the time). Sent him to to an ultra-ultra-ultra-max facility in Antarctica. > > He created a virus that drove the other (superpowered) inmates insane, staged a mass jailbreak, and set them loose to spread the virus. > > So that didn’t work out so well. Seriously, this is exactly the kind of thing I’m talking about. Didn’t anyone at this supposed ultra-ultra-ultra-max facility think it might be a bad idea to allow the Joker to have access to a bio-warfare lab? C’mon people, you were just asking for trouble. ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/43 "2006-06-23T18:46:44Z")
[QUOTE=Kythereia] As for a solution? Make him _sane_. Treat his psychoses–his psychopathic tendencies–and show him everything he’s done. [/QUOTE] Burning Martian storyline has one frame where Everyone in Arkham has gone sane. Joker is weeping, wailing about all the people he killed, and begging for someone to kill him. Later, someone asks Batman what he found out at Arkham. His response? ‘I found out I can still smile.’ Chilling. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/44 "2006-06-23T22:28:52Z")
The motherfuckin’ Spectre should have killed the Joker by now – turned into a giant lawnmower or a ghostly cheese grater or something, and had his way with him. “The living embodiment of God’s wrath” and he lets this guy run around loose? I realize Batman can’t do it, but there’s no excuse for the Spectre (who was a murdered cop, keep in mind) to let him slide. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/45 "2006-06-23T22:39:08Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] Ever read **The Killing Joke**? That explains why not. Killing the Joker means you’re as much a psychopath as he is. [/QUOTE] I’ve read _The Killing Joke._ I don’t think it explains what you think it explains. For the record, I’d kill him. I don’t need a law to be written. No jury would convict me. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/46 "2006-06-23T23:06:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Why don’t the citizens of Gotham pass a law to execute the Joker? You’d think they’d catch on after the first few escapes. Sheesh, what message board is this? Nobody’s noticed that the OP proposed passing a Bill of Attainder, which is explicitly prohibited by the Constitution. The best you could do would be to pass laws attaching the death penalty to a variety of crimes, and then wait for the Joker to commit one of them. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/47 "2006-06-23T23:16:11Z")
[QUOTE=ArrMatey!] Burning Martian storyline has one frame where Everyone in Arkham has gone sane. Joker is weeping, wailing about all the people he killed, and begging for someone to kill him. Later, someone asks Batman what he found out at Arkham. His response? ‘I found out I can still smile.’ Chilling. [/QUOTE] Was that the story where J’onn (and company) are travelling through Joker’s mind and finds one small room where the sane Joseph Kerr lives, with his pleasantly plump wife and furniture from Sears? That was one of the saddest scenes I have ever read. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/48 "2006-06-23T23:48:44Z")
Just call in WW. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2006, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/49 "2006-06-24T00:32:09Z")
[QUOTE=Big Bad Voodoo Lou] The motherfuckin’ Spectre should have killed the Joker by now – turned into a giant lawnmower or a ghostly cheese grater or something, and had his way with him. “The living embodiment of God’s wrath” and he lets this guy run around loose? I realize Batman can’t do it, but there’s no excuse for the Spectre (who was a murdered cop, keep in mind) to let him slide. [/QUOTE] Look up two posts to Dr Fidelus’, and you’ll see why it hasn’t happened. Specter was brought into Joker’s mind and found one little, tiny, cramped place where Joker was still okay, was still ‘normal’. He was, in essence, redeemable. Somehow or another this saved him, although it didn’t do much for a lot of Specter’s other encounters. _shrug_. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2006, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/50 "2006-06-24T01:02:06Z")
[QUOTE=ArrMatey!] Look up two posts to Dr Fidelus’, and you’ll see why it hasn’t happened. Specter was brought into Joker’s mind and found one little, tiny, cramped place where Joker was still okay, was still ‘normal’. He was, in essence, redeemable. Somehow or another this saved him, although it didn’t do much for a lot of Specter’s other encounters. _shrug_. [/QUOTE] As I recall it, the Spectre discovered that the Joker was truly pathologically incapable of having a conscience, so he couldn’t be held morally responsible for his actions. I also seem to recall a story where the Joker was tried under a newly passed “Insane but Guilty” law (if anyone ever qualified, it was the Joker!), convicted, sent to death row, about to be barbecued in the Chair; and then freed because the Batman proved the Joker innocent of the particular killing he was convicted for. (I have no idea where that law went later). ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2006, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/51 "2006-06-24T04:27:50Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Clam] \*Meaning that he is highly selective who he goes after. When’s the last time you saw Batman beating up a hooker or, for that matter, a white-collar criminal or polluter? Yet he’ll cheerfully use GBH to stop a bank robber or mugger even if they aren’t threatening him. [/QUOTE] Maybe that’s another problem with his approach…what would the world be like if the CEO of Nike had his legs broken by a costumed freak every time a sweatshop scandal made the news? 😃 Or… “Mister McKinnell…I understand that your company has blocked the import of generic forms of your hypoallergenic anti-inflamatory drugs. I am _very_ disappointed with you, Mister McKinnell.” [cue savage beating, skyscraper-dangling] ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2006, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/52 "2006-06-24T04:42:39Z")
How do you solve a problem like the Joker? How do you catch a cloud and pin it down? …I’m sorry. It’s late. I’ll be quiet now. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2006, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/53 "2006-06-24T05:09:43Z")
Dealing with the Joker directly seems to present at least two insurmountable obstacles, in that he can’t be reliably killed or confined by any means. Even if you were to march straight into the cell where he’s being (temporarily) held and place a gun right to his head, something would invariably happen to keep you from pulling the trigger. He’d have a hollow tooth filled with Joker venom and spit it at you, or he’d reveal that his henchmen had already kidnapped your relatives and would kill them all unless you helped him escape, or some such nonsense. If it came right down to it, Batman would burst in at the last second and prevent you from killing him, so that’s no good. For much the same reasons, the Joker is automatically immune to any attempts to permanently cripple, lobotomize, or mentally alter him in any way. Don’t look at me like that; I don’t make the rules. Contrariwise, if you actually \*did \* manage to blow his brains out, all that would prove is that he was never the \*real \* Joker after all; instead, you’ve just murdered some nameless hired impersonator or psychologically manipulated dupe. And if somehow the universe were looking the other way for a second and you did actually manage to really, truly kill the Joker, it’d only last for about two days until Mr. Mxyzptlk or Etrigan the Demon or someone would decide they were bored, and resurrect him just for the hell of it. That’s just the way the world works. So any resolution to the Joker problem must incorporate a plan that does not require him to be permanently incarcerated or killed, because it just isn’t going to happen. My solution? _Robot parrots._ Lots of them. Gotham City needs to invest in flocks of highly sophisticated, autonomous robot parrots to patrol the entire city and its environs. As we all know, the Joker emanates a unique odor of soggy playing card dye and hydrochloric acid, that these robot parrots will be programmed to detect and follow. So whenever the Joker goes, he’ll be surrounded by dozens upon dozens of robot parrots, behaving ostentatiously. This will provide a ready means of tracking him, of course; but more importantly, everyone around the Joker will be distracted by the parrots. Since the Joker thrives on attention, this should prove intolerable. He’ll be trying to poison the city’s water supply, and when he looks up, his henchmen are all smiling and laughing at the antics of the parrots. When he arranges to break all the inmates out of Arkham and send them on a rampage through the city, the other villains will be asking him, “Hey, what’s up with the parrots all of a sudden? Are you teamed up with the Penguin now?” Soon all the criminals will be talking about the new Joker/Penguin team. The news media will pick up on it, and suddenly there’ll be stories like, “Parrot Puzzler: Has Joker Turned Pirate?” People will see the Joker committing a crime, surrounded by parrots, and they’ll go, “Hey, look out, it’s the Pirate!” And the Joker will be like, “Shut up! Shut up! I’m not a stinkin’ pirate, so just shut up!” And the next day, the newspapers will all read, “Pirate Loots Again!” “Pirate/Penguin Crime Spree Continues!” Sooner or later the Joker will start to hate the parrots even worse than Batman, and this will be his downfall, since robot parrots don’t really count as an archnemesis. Bereft of focus, he’ll eventually get sick of the whole thing and leave town. Maybe every so often he’ll read about one of Batman’s escapades and think about going back to a life of crime, but then he’d run across an article asking, “Whatever Happened to the Pirate?” and he’d remember those damn parrots and reject the notion in disgust. Granted, maintaining thousands of robot parrots will be no small expense for Gotham City, but I think it’d be worth it to get rid of the Joker once and for all. And honestly, after decades of notoriety as the town where the Joker could escape at any moment and kill your ass, I expect Gotham would jump at the chance to be known as the city full of happy, colorful parrots. “Welcome to Gotham City, Parrot Paradise!” the postcards would read. And you know the Penguin would always be trying to subvert the parrots to his own nefarious ends, so that would give Batman something to do. So everyone’s happy. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2006, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/54 "2006-06-24T06:01:59Z")
[QUOTE=Ranchoth] Maybe that’s another problem with his approach…what would the world be like if the CEO of Nike had his legs broken by a costumed freak every time a sweatshop scandal made the news? 😃 Or… “Mister McKinnell…I understand that your company has blocked the import of generic forms of your hypoallergenic anti-inflamatory drugs. I am _very_ disappointed with you, Mister McKinnell.” [cue savage beating, skyscraper-dangling] [/QUOTE] Writer Micah Ian Wright had this very idea for his new take on a Vigilante comic, but the “Rangergate” scandal blew all of his credibility as a writer, and DC Comics blacklisted him afterwards. Essentially, Wright had taken a very anti-war, anti-Bush stance and published a collection of World War II-era propaganda posters with Photoshopped ironic slogans taking aim at the current administration and the military-industrial complex. However, he claimed to be a former Army Ranger, so he supposedly had insight into the war as a critic that others lacked. When he was exposed, DC canceled his Stormwatch comic (about a team of right-wing paramilitary commandos who hunted superheroes) with one issue left to go, and his pitch for the Vigilante as a scourge of white collar criminals would never materialize. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2006, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/55 "2006-06-24T06:15:35Z")
Sorry for the slight hijack, but this thread made me go dig up my copy of The Killing Joke and reread it for the first time since I was a kid. I _know_ they’re not making the joke I think they are on page 14. You know, with Commissioner Gordon and his daughter, and the scrapbook…and the paste… Please tell me my mind is just too deeply entrenched in the gutter. At least if I know I’m wrong, I might be able to sleep tonight. (_shudder_) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2006, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/56 "2006-06-24T07:18:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Writer Micah Ian Wright had this very idea for his new take on a Vigilante comic, but the “Rangergate” scandal blew all of his credibility as a writer, and DC Comics blacklisted him afterwards. Essentially, Wright had taken a very anti-war, anti-Bush stance and published a collection of World War II-era propaganda posters with Photoshopped ironic slogans taking aim at the current administration and the military-industrial complex. However, he claimed to be a former Army Ranger, so he supposedly had insight into the war as a critic that others lacked. When he was exposed, DC canceled his Stormwatch comic (about a team of right-wing paramilitary commandos who hunted superheroes) with one issue left to go, and his pitch for the Vigilante as a scourge of white collar criminals would never materialize. There was also a somewhat similar idea in _Kingdom Come_ where Hawkman had become a radical enviromentalist and was attacking businesses that hurt nature. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2006, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/57 "2006-06-24T08:58:26Z")
[QUOTE=Roland Orzabal] Sorry for the slight hijack, but this thread made me go dig up my copy of The Killing Joke and reread it for the first time since I was a kid. I _know_ they’re not making the joke I think they are on page 14. You know, with Commissioner Gordon and his daughter, and the scrapbook…and the paste… Please tell me my mind is just too deeply entrenched in the gutter. At least if I know I’m wrong, I might be able to sleep tonight. (_shudder_) [/QUOTE] :eek: I…I…no. No, it couldn’t be. No. Surely not. Alan Moore, you bastard! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2006, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/58 "2006-06-24T16:32:50Z")
If anybody else is as lost as I just was, I think the bit they’re talking about goes as follows: > [@](#): > > Barbara: Urrgh. Look, you’ve used too much paste! It’s all squidging under the edges of the clipping. You’re going to get it on your pants… ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2006, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/59 "2006-06-24T16:36:29Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] If anybody else is as lost as I just was, I think the bit they’re talking about goes as follows: [/QUOTE] Actually, I think the killer was when he replies: [QUOTE=Commisioner Gordon] Barbara, you’re fussier than your mother was! [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![ululate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/59ef9b/32.png) [@ululate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ululate)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2006, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810/60 "2006-06-24T16:44:02Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy] I also seem to recall a story where the Joker was tried under a newly passed “Insane but Guilty” law (if anyone ever qualified, it was the Joker!), convicted, sent to death row, about to be barbecued in the Chair; and then freed because the Batman proved the Joker innocent of the particular killing he was convicted for. (I have no idea where that law went later). [/QUOTE] IIRC, you’re misremembering; it’s that, as with every such trial of the Joker, there’s a question of fact as to whether he’s legally sane – and this particular jury found that he was. (The verdict was quite a surprise, as most folks expected him to as usual be sentenced to medical treatment in an asylum.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-would-you-solve-the-joker-problem-gotham/361810.md?page=4)