# Howard Dean Finds Religion, Hallelujah! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 4, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714 "2004-01-04T23:40:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/1 "2004-01-04T23:40:37Z")
From today’s _NY Times_: STORM LAKE, Iowa, Jan. 3 — Little by little, the Lord is seeping into Howard Dean’s presidential campaign. In South Carolina the other day, an invocation preceded the political speeches, and David Mack, a state legislator, closed the rally with “God bless you and keep you.” In Iowa last weekend, Dr. Dean referred to the New Testament. On Friday in New Hampshire, he invoked a Muslim phrase, “inshallah,” God willing, to make a point about Americans believing they control their destiny. “I’m still learning a lot about faith and the South and how important it is,” Dr. Dean, the former governor of Vermont, said as he flew here, 150 miles northwest of Des Moines, Friday night on his chartered jet, predicting he would mention God more and more in the coming weeks. “It doesn’t make me more religious or less religious than I was before, but it means that I’m willing to talk about it in different ways.” Dr. Dean recently told an audience in Iowa that he prayed daily. On the plane he declined to detail his prayer ritual but described how a 2002 trip to Israel deepened his understanding of the connections between Judaism and Christianity. He named Job as his favorite New Testament book, then later corrected himself, noting that it is in the Old Testament. “I’m a New Englander, so I’m not used to wearing religion on my sleeve and being as open about it,” he said. “I’m gradually getting more comfortable with talking about religion in ways that I did not talk about it before.” The changes come amid concern from several corners about the stridently secular tone of his campaign so far. In contrast to his Democratic opponents, who frequently discuss their faith in public, not to mention the born-again incumbent, President Bush, Dr. Dean said plainly in an interview a couple of months back: “I don’t think that religion ought to be part of American policy.” A cover story in The New Republic last month, headlined “Howard Dean’s religion problem,” called him “one of the most secular candidates to run for president in modern history,” and suggested this would “mark him as culturally alien to much of the country.” A rash of columns followed with similar warnings, and voters have begun to inquire about the issue at town hall meetings. –So, what about it? Is Dean a genuinely religious man who is just now speaking up, or a canny pol who realizes there is no way a secular candidate could be elected in this religion-obsessed country? Would it be the better part of valour for an athiest or agnostic (I have no idea if Dean is either) to be honest, or to “play the game” and God it up, as Dean is doing? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2004, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/2 "2004-01-04T23:44:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Is Dean a genuinely religious man who is just now speaking up, or a canny pol who realizes there is no way a secular candidate could be elected in this religion-obsessed country? The latter-- and you don’t have to be too canny to realize that. I actually think this is the rare GD OP that actually belongs in GQ.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/3 "2004-01-05T00:04:53Z")
It would appear Dean is pandering to the religious set. Evidently he is less courageous than I originally believed. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/4 "2004-01-05T00:10:36Z")
I think the pandering is probably necessary to some extent. Heck, everyone else does it, so it’d look bad if he didn’t. But I think he’s still making himself look bad because the pandering is so obvious and out of character. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/5 "2004-01-05T00:20:24Z")
Well, the only thing I look for is a politician who’s willing to agree with me on the issues. The idea that any of them would have any real courage is just wacky. Courageous politician is as complete an oxymoron as military intelligence. Still, one doesn’t want to just come out and say during the campaign, “I have balls the size of marbles.” Dean needs some advice somewhere through here. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/6 "2004-01-05T00:28:40Z")
From what I’ve been able to establish, Howard Dean and his wife are members of the United Church of Christ (Congregationalists) and have been for years. He attended regularly but not weekly – “about once a month” was the information I got – and the tenets of the church are in no way contrary to what he’s expressed as his public views. I’m inclined to believe that he’s telling the truth, and that his greater outspokenness about his faith as he brings his campaign nationwide is politically motivated – because he realizes that people are more outspoken about their beliefs in the South and Midwest than in New England – but that he is doing nothing more than being more open about what he’s felt all along, not “getting religion” for political reasons. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/7 "2004-01-05T00:38:25Z")
Has he been granted a private audience with Jerry Falwell yet ? I guess not, hence the policy change. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/8 "2004-01-05T00:52:33Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\* On Friday in New Hampshire, he invoked a Muslim phrase, “inshallah,” God willing, to make a point about Americans believing they control their destiny._\* Not sure how this squares with his being a “canny pol”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/9 "2004-01-05T01:02:54Z")
There’s a surprisingly large Arab population in NH with some election wins to their credit, is how. John Sununu Sr. and Jr. and Jeanne Shaheen (well, by marriage) are the most notable. [Shaheen is on Kerry’s campaign, btw.](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/01/04/granite_states_shaheens_put_weight_behind_kerry/) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/10 "2004-01-05T01:06:37Z")
He’s found religion! Now if he could only find the book of Job… > [@](#): > > Asked his favorite New Testament book, Dr. Dean named Job… > > …An hour after his comments, Dr. Dean returned to the clutch of reporters, saying he realized he had misspoken because Job is not in the New Testament. Serves him right for pandering, sez I. Back to Sunday School for Mr. Dean. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/11 "2004-01-05T01:14:26Z")
:smack: He didn’t even know if it was in the Old or the New? Oh man. I need to get them to hire me as Chief Stopper of Stupid Gaffes. This is too dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/12 "2004-01-05T01:45:24Z")
Wow, I’m amazed how many Dopers are telepathic! James Randi’s gonna be short a million soon. Seriously unless you know Dean personally, I dont see how you can possibly judge the sincerity of his religious beliefs. (Though I understand how the timing could raise some suspicions) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/13 "2004-01-05T01:48:41Z")
As an atheist, I could give a flying fuck where the book of Job is, but I don’t think it’s fair to fault Dean for not knowing even if you’re religious. Back in my churchgoing days, there were a lot of us who didn’t know a lot of Bible lore. You don’t have to be a Ned Flanders to be religious … do you? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/14 "2004-01-05T01:55:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Larry Borgia \* > \*\*Wow, I’m amazed how many Dopers are telepathic! James Randi’s gonna be short a million soon. > > Seriously unless you know Dean personally, I dont see how you can possibly judge the sincerity of his religious beliefs. (Though I understand how the timing could raise some suspicions) \*\* Ummm, we’re not “judging” them, or even stating whether or not he _is_ religious. Did you even read _any_ of the posts? We are discussing the timing of his religious statements, and whether a secular candidate could ever win an election. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/15 "2004-01-05T02:50:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Captor \* > \*\*As an atheist, I could give a flying fuck where the book of Job is, but I don’t think it’s fair to fault Dean for not knowing even if you’re religious. \*\* As an atheist, I STILL know the friggin’ Bible. I don’t fault Dean for his “lack of faith,” but rather for literary ignorance…it’s as if he placed the Thane of Cawdor in _Hamlet_ or something. Could a secular cadidate win a Presidential election? Damn, it’s hard to say. Going back as far as Ronnie and Jimmy, we’ve got “Born Agains.” Ford doesn’t count. Tricky Dick made Henry (Jewish) Kissinger get down on his knees alongside him and pray to Jesus. What the hell did LBJ believe in? Kennedy was famous for being a Catholic. Eisenhower, Truman, FDR…I have no idea, but I can’t picture any of them passing the collection plate. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/16 "2004-01-05T02:57:22Z")
**Evil Captor** : I’m not particularly religious either, to put it mildly, but knowing where the Book of Job is is kind of like being able to hit the blind side of a barn from 5 feet away with a rock. Ah well, at least he knew it was in The Bible. I just hope no one decides to ask him if The Sermon on The Mount is in Job or not. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/17 "2004-01-05T02:59:57Z")
He gave a sermon on a horse ? Anyways, way back when, the religious right wasn’t organised by Rev. Hoffa with teevee stations and 10 of millions hanging on every pole-iti-sizhed wurd. It’s a modern phem, phen, pheomon, development. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/18 "2004-01-05T03:34:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ukulele Ike \* > \*\*As an atheist, I STILL know the friggin’ Bible. I don’t fault Dean for his “lack of faith,” but rather for literary ignorance…it’s as if he placed the Thane of Cawdor in _Hamlet_ or something. > > \*\* Eh. Someone said “New Testament” and he mentallly heard “Bible.” As gaffes go, not much of one IMO. This is gonna be a fun election season, though. I can’t wait for the Bush bashers to start trumpeting the merits of an over-credentialed, undersmart, Jesus-loving opponent of gay marriage and supporter of faith-based federal grants to charities, who has no foreign policy experience and a secrecy fetish. “Look – he’s just like Bush, except that he “supposes” that it’s a good thing Hussein is out of power and he wants to increase your taxes! Vote for him!” ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/19 "2004-01-05T03:35:02Z")
Lots of politicians have made 11th hour ‘conversions’ to avoid upsetting the public. Does anyone really think Bill Clinton is particularly religious? Still, Dean has been pretty ham-fisted in the way he’s dealt with this. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714/20 "2004-01-05T03:41:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*From what I’ve been able to establish, Howard Dean and his wife are members of the United Church of Christ (Congregationalists) and have been for years. He attended regularly but not weekly – “about once a month” was the information I got – and the tenets of the church are in no way contrary to what he’s expressed as his public views. \*\* From what I’ve read, while he’s a Congregationalist, his wife and children are Jewish. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-finds-religion-hallelujah/222714.md?page=2)