# Howard Dean in '08? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2006, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628 "2006-11-08T23:44:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/1 "2006-11-08T23:44:09Z")
Why not? He came within a hair of the Democratic presidential nomination in '04. Since then, he has served as DNC Chair and devised a winning “50-state strategy” for the party. Seems to me like he’s proven himself. And I can think of no obvious reason why he wouldn’t be electable (the “scream” will be mostly forgotten by then). Nor why he wouldn’t make a good president. (Much too conservative for me, actually, based on his record as governor of Vermont, but politics is the art of the possible). What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/2 "2006-11-08T23:49:30Z")
The winning strateggy of '06 goes to Rahm Emanuel, not Howard Dean, btw. Emanuel of the DLC wing of the party, that is. If the Dems want to lose, nominate another “Northeast Liberal”. If they want to win, nominate another “Red State Moderate”. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/3 "2006-11-08T23:52:23Z")
I think Howard Dean has less chance of winning than I do. He’s widely seen as a flake now, and that ain’t gonna get any better. If the Dems want the Whitehouse, they need to come up with a non-tainted moderate. Remember, last night was NOT a liberal revolution. It was a large anti-GoP/Bush backlash. The Dems still haven’t articulated a common vision of what they are FOR…they were elected becasue of what they oppose. That ain’t gonna cut it in 08. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/4 "2006-11-08T23:55:01Z")
Evan Bayh with a charisma transfusion from Bill Clinton would be unbeatable. But I don’t think they will be able to resist nominating Hillary Clinton… Hello President McCain! ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/5 "2006-11-08T23:55:13Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Why not? He came within a hair of the Democratic presidential nomination in '04. [/QUOTE] He came in a very distant 3rd to John Kerry. He only got a lousy 13.9% in Caucuses, and an even worse 5.5% in Primaries. He recieved a paltry 3.1% of the Delegates. That’s only 108 out of over 3500. Mighty long hair you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/6 "2006-11-08T23:59:33Z")
Dean is no “Northeast Liberal,” despite his “Democratic wing of the Democratic Party” rhetoric. He steered a moderate course in Vermont: > [@](#): > > He was a fiscal conservative and friendly to business. Fans of Vermont’s progressive hero, congressman Bernie Sanders, say Dean is no liberal. Dean alienated many liberals staking out moderate stands on health insurance, guns, environmentalism, and gay marriage. Vermont became the first state with domestic partnership only because a court ordered the Legislature to approve gay marriage or some equivalent and Dean opted for the more cautious approach. > > On defense, where Democrats need to show that they are more serious about national security than Republicans, Dean is no pacifist. He simply believes that the Iraq war, as prosecuted by George Bush, on dishonest premises and with no serious planning for the aftermath, was the wrong way to keep America safe. [Cite](http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/02/09/being_howard_dean/). I actually think Howard Dean could play pretty well in the South, depending on his opponent. Suppose the Republicans nominate Rudolph Giuliani or Mitt Romney, for instance. On the whole, though, I would agree that a red state moderate is the best option, provided the candidate has some charisma. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/7 "2006-11-09T00:01:48Z")
[QUOTE=pkbites] He came in a very distant 3rd to John Kerry. He only got a lousy 13.9% in Caucuses, and an even worse 5.5% in Primaries. He recieved a paltry 3.1% of the Delegates. That’s only 108 out of over 3500. [/QUOTE] That’s only so because Democrats somehow hypnotized themselves into believing that Kerry (the big stiff) was the “electable” candidate. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/8 "2006-11-09T00:06:44Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] The winning strateggy of '06 goes to Rahm Emanuel, not Howard Dean, btw. [/QUOTE] That’s a questionable assertion. Dean has been a fundraising animal. He’s also responsible for the “50 State Strategy” that pushed Democratic candidates all across the country instead of just in key swing states. Without that across-the-board effort the Democrats would not have been in a position to capitalize on the Republican collapse. I’m not saying Dean should get all the credit and Emanuel none. But Dean’s leadership was a major factor in the victory yesterday. And for that reason alone I’d prefer not to see him run for president. I’d rather he stay right where he is to help strengthen the Democratic hold on Congress in '08. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/9 "2006-11-09T00:39:37Z")
After Lieberman’s victory last night, do people _still_ want to flog the “northeast liberal” meme? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/10 "2006-11-09T00:42:32Z")
I think its a great idea! 😛 Of course, I have ulterior motives…I want to keep the government split now, so having the Dems actually run a viable candidate is probably not a good thing at this point, as it looks like they are taking over the legislature… -XT ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/11 "2006-11-09T01:08:49Z")
[QUOTE=rjung] After Lieberman’s victory last night, do people _still_ want to flog the “northeast liberal” meme? [/QUOTE] It matters little whether he is really a “northest liberal” or not. He’ll be painted that way. But, like I said, if you want the Dems to lose, nominate someone like Dean. I want a good presidential race in '08, not a slaughter. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/12 "2006-11-09T02:39:01Z")
Everything else aside, the scream will NOT be forgotten anytime soon, much less 15 months or so from now when the PotUSA race starts to heat up. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/13 "2006-11-09T03:24:50Z")
The “scream” was played today on a local radio station talk show in conjunction with Victoria Wulsin’s\* rather extremely high-pitched fingernails-on-a-chalkboard shrill voice for laughs. Even Paul Hackett\*\*, a guest on the show, was laughing his ass off. As stated above, it ain’t forgotten, will not be forgotten by '08, and will probably be played at the poor guy’s funeral, and be mentioned on the evening news in his obit. Sir Rhosis \*Wulsin ran against Jean Schmidt, for those who are unaware of her. \*\*I’m going to assume any explanation of who he is would be superfluous to intelligent GD Dopers ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/14 "2006-11-09T03:25:54Z")
I gotta agree. I’m sure Dean wouldn’t do any worse than anyone the Pubs can field, but he’s just not electable anymore. Rightly or wrongly, I just don’t think he can play to the mushy middle, because now they think he’s a bellowing freak from the commie Northeast. Give it up. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/15 "2006-11-09T04:02:26Z")
Does any non-conservative in this thread doubt Dean would, if he could be elected, make a pretty good president? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/16 "2006-11-09T04:07:24Z")
I’m sure he’d be just fine. What does that have to do with electability? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/17 "2006-11-09T04:24:56Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Does any non-conservative in this thread doubt Dean would, if he could be elected, make a pretty good president? [/QUOTE] I think I’d make an awesome president. Doesn’t mean anyone would vote for me. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/18 "2006-11-09T04:28:58Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Does any non-conservative in this thread doubt Dean would, if he could be elected, make a pretty good president? [/QUOTE] I see a bunch of folks have beaten me to the ‘whats that got to do with electability’. Out of curiosity though…how many conservatives do you count in this thread? -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/19 "2006-11-09T04:38:10Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Out of curiosity though…how many conservatives do you count in this thread? [/QUOTE] Well, Dean himself is not very liberal (see above), but for these purposes, let’s define “conservatives” as anyone who would not object on principle to Dean’s politics, ideology, goals and/or policies, however you read them. Assuming that, do you see any reason to belief Dean would not an effective and beneficial president? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/20 "2006-11-09T04:43:49Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Well, Dean himself is not very liberal (see above), but for these purposes, let’s define “conservatives” as anyone who would not object on principle to Dean’s politics, ideology, goals and/or policies, however you read them. Assuming that, do you see any reason to belief Dean would not an effective and beneficial president? [/QUOTE] I don’t have any real problem with his politics, per se…but I can’t say he’d be in my top 100 of people I would vote for, no. IF he managed to get himself elected, something I rate at slightly better than a snowballs chance in hell, I’m sure he couldn’t do worst than Bush at any rate. I don’t see what thats got to do with the central issue though…there is just about no way in hell the man is GOING to get himself elected…IMHO anyway. Even assuming he managed to get himself through the primaries and as the Dem nominee (something I have my doubts about right there), just about anyone the Pub’s tossed up would slaughter him in a national election. Unless they find a way to run Bush again I suppose…Dean MIGHT be able to squeak out a victory over GW 😛 Seriously…the guy came in third behind Kerry and Edwards. The same pair who lost to friggin GW Bush…perhaps the worst president in living memory (well…its debatable anyway). I haven’t seen how ole Howard has changed his image all THAT much to have improved things for himself in a national election…do you? -XT [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628.md?page=2)