# Howard Dean in '08? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2006, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628 "2006-11-08T23:44:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/41 "2006-11-09T20:33:10Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] Everything else aside, the scream will NOT be forgotten anytime soon, much less 15 months or so from now when the PotUSA race starts to heat up. [/QUOTE] You’re right. Of course, it’s fun seeing some of the same SDMB instapundits who were predicting that Dean as the DNC chairman was going to bring the Democrats down in flames… -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/42 "2006-11-09T20:37:18Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] No, but do I have to? [/QUOTE] Yes, if you want to discuss the topic intelligently. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/43 "2006-11-09T20:39:44Z")
The entire _point_, since you’re so concerned about intelligence, is the topic will **not** be discussed intelligently. See, great mind? Get it? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/44 "2006-11-09T20:51:47Z")
Here’s the thing, **Loopydude** : two days ago, the kind of tactics you’re talking about failed. Bush and Cheney said Iraq the Democrats would pull out of Iraq, raise everybody’s taxes, and that a win for the Democrats was a win for the terrorists. And people still voted for the Democrats. I’ll grant you that the idea of the film could be powerful ammunition, but then again, maybe it won’t work out that way. We shouldn’t be convinced that slanderous pandering will work every time the Republicans try it. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/45 "2006-11-09T21:13:14Z")
I hope you’re right, but I’m not convinced yet. As much as I wish it weren’t so, , and it galls me to agree, I think the Republican pundits have called this election fairly accurately: It’s a vote against Bush. Things have gotten so horrendously bad that people are just fed up. That doesn’t mean they grew a brain instantaneously, or had some major shift in priorities or perspective. It means the two-by-four of reality, applied several dozen times upside th’ haid, got a bunch of moderate-to-conservative Democrats squeaked into some key seats. This is not a ringing endorsement of left-wing principles. This is repudiation of the utter corruption of the right, which has led even the conservatives of this land to recognize something must be done. I wouldn’t get cocky. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/46 "2006-11-09T21:30:25Z")
I wasn’t impugning your intelligence, Loopydude. Just saying that before you attack Gore’s work you might want to take a look at it. I understand your counterpoint that most people won’t be bothered. Maybe you’re right, but I sort of think that if Gore ran for President, people might watch the movie just to find out what he’s on about. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/47 "2006-11-09T21:41:12Z")
I’m sorry, **spoke-**. I wrote that message and instantly regretted it. I must confess I got some bad news (again) a little while ago, and it’s made me testy and a little depressed. It’s wrong of me to take it out on others, and there’s no excuse for being a jerk, which I am far too often. Same goes to anyone else I’ve annoyed recently, if not earlier. I should probably just cool it for a while and relax. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/48 "2006-11-09T21:44:43Z")
Ah, don’t sweat it **Loopydude**. I’m not taking this discussion personally. Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/49 "2006-11-09T22:27:41Z")
**John Mace** , Emanuel came up with the 50-State Strategy? Was that before or after he spent his energy and valuable time talking it down? Emanuel’s more than happy to take credit for the results on Tuesday, and Dean, being a _mensch_ is more than willing to share that credit with him, but it wasn’t his strategy or his ideas that won Congress for the Dems. It was Dean’s. And it wasn’t him that raised scads of money to hand out to those candidates, it was Dean. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/50 "2006-11-09T22:48:54Z")
The New York Times ran an article on this exact topic a few days ago. I _like_ the 50-state strategy, but how much of the Dems’ success can be attributed to that, as opposed to the work Schumer did with the Senate committee (which, believe it or not, raised more money than the Republican Senate committe) or what Emmanuel did in the House? What evidence do we have that Dean should get the credit instead of the others, or some other factors? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/51 "2006-11-09T22:54:08Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > This election saw the Democrats woo more independent and even conservative voters. We had conservative Democrats (I’m not alone!) and even such an unlikely animal as a pro-life Democrat elected. “Unlikely animal”? Huh? Pro-life Democrats are certainly in the minority, but they’ve always been around, and it’s nothing unique or even remarkably rare for one to be elected to the federal legislature. Harry Reid, Tim Roemer, Jim Langevin, John Murtha, and about thirty other currently or recently sitting Democratic Congressfolk who oppose abortion are listed [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrats_for_Life). I think some conservatives right now are tending to indulge in a certain amount of rhetorical spin about Democrats and conservatism: playing down the frank liberalism of Dems like Pelosi and playing up the (actually not very unusual or remarkable) conservatism of a few other Dems, so they can argue that this election was a repudiation of Democratic liberalism and a victory for centrism. So far, I’m not convinced. > [@Weirddave](#): > > What I’m waiting to see is if this is a trend away from the loonie left (and if so, it’s about Goddamned time), or simply a momentary opportunism aimed at taking advantage of the weakened GOP. If it’s the former, that’s good news. If it’s the later, then these mid term gains may ultimately prove to be fleeting. Maybe. It depends partly on whether the GOP will manage to start a trend away from its own loonie right, for which it is way, way, way past Goddamned time, if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/52 "2006-11-09T22:57:33Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] What evidence do we have that Dean should get the credit instead of the others, or some other factors? [/QUOTE] I think the fact that the GOP were spending good chunks of money in races that they’d previously thought were uncompetitive would be a good sign. My understanding of the 50-state strategy is that it’s not a one-shot cure-all panacea; it’s a long-term plan, of slowly taking back ground anywhere and everywhere. Even if you don’t win a race today, at least you’ve established a presence that can be built on for the next time around (instead of conceding ground and just letting the opposition broadbrush you). And the more money the opposition spends fighting these previously-safe seats means less money that is spent elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/53 "2006-11-09T23:06:10Z")
I was seeing half-page ads by the Democratic Party in small-town Georgia papers. I sure didn’t see that last time around. Not sure how much credit goes to Dean, but I think it is wise to maintain a presence even in strongly Republican areas. We can’t let Republican propaganda go unanswered. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/54 "2006-11-09T23:42:57Z")
I’d love to see Gore win again, and I think he could if he chooses to run. Gore/Napolitano is my fantasy ticket for '08 right now. I honestly meant to type “I’d love to see Gore _run_ again,” but my slip is fitting. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/55 "2006-11-17T12:32:58Z")
What’s the fight between Carville and Dean all about? Could it have anything to do with Hillary? Maybe Dean will say, “OK I’ll go. But you know that pledge not to run for Pres.? Well it doesn’t apply anymore given the circumstances.” ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/56 "2006-11-17T14:21:22Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] What’s the fight between Carville and Dean all about? [/QUOTE] I’ve been trying to figure that one out myself. That question probably deserves a separate thread. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/57 "2006-11-17T18:11:48Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] Maybe Dean will say, “OK I’ll go. But you know that pledge not to run for Pres.? Well it doesn’t apply anymore given the circumstances.” [/QUOTE] And will it backfire on the… I don’t see Dean doing that. He’d throw the party into chaos and lose credit for whatever he’s done. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/58 "2006-11-17T18:42:33Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] And will it backfire on the… I don’t see Dean doing that. He’d throw the party into chaos and lose credit for whatever he’s done. [/QUOTE] Credit? I haven’t seen any credit. All I’ve seen is further speculation about how Dean is destroying the party, and if he hadn’t done such a terrible job the Dems would have gotten another 20 seats! A man’s gotta get sick of that eventually. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/59 "2006-11-17T18:51:20Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] What I’m waiting to see is if this is a trend away from the loonie left (and if so, it’s about Goddamned time), or simply a momentary opportunism aimed at taking advantage of the weakened GOP. [/QUOTE] Apparently even [Jim Webb](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20061204/hayes) is defying expectations by turning out to be part of the “loonie left” :rolleyes: , meaning in this case an economic-populist class warrior; so that wing of the party, marginalized at least since 1992, might prove to be more resilient than anyone thought, and on the brink of a resurgency; and it’s about Goddamned time! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628/60 "2006-11-17T18:53:17Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] Credit? I haven’t seen any credit. All I’ve seen is further speculation about how Dean is destroying the party, and if he hadn’t done such a terrible job the Dems would have gotten another 20 seats! [/QUOTE] I’ve seen none of that. Cite? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-in-08/379628.md?page=4)