# Howard Dean is insane **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 20, 2004, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312 "2004-01-20T12:55:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2004, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/81 "2004-01-22T06:59:46Z")
The bar for being insane appears to have been lowered precipitously. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2004, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/82 "2004-01-22T12:52:39Z")
New poll out this morning showing Kerry ahead of Dean in NH by 10 points. I think this is the beginning of the end for him, he peaked too soon. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2004, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/83 "2004-01-22T13:46:14Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > The bar for being insane appears to have been lowered precipitously. I agree completely. If people count that as insane, I’d strongly recommend they avoid high school pep rallies, Pentecostal tent meetings and Blue Oyster Cult concerts. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2004, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/84 "2004-01-22T13:50:20Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > The bar for being insane appears to have been lowered precipitously. Maybe we should make a distinction, here, between legal insanity and political insanity. After all, Ross Perot was a successful businessman and computer salesman. Good stable guy, corporate citizen and all that. It was only when he got political that he got all crazy-looking. The chief reason for that, for both men, seems to be an amazing inability to self-censor themselves. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2004, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/85 "2004-01-22T14:04:03Z")
> [@Amanita](#): > > I woke up my husband (the Dean supporter and campaign volunteer as noted in a previous post of mine) this morning by shaking his shoulder and expressing concern that Dean has lost his marbles. This was after NPR ran a bit about the infamous “Yearrrrgh!” speech and then commented on an event in New Hampshire. Apparently, a protester busted out in the crowd, and they had a sound bite of Dean saying seriously into the microphone, “Security! We need security up front!” That was okay, but the corker was when two women in the front row started shouting at him, and he responded by _singing the national anthem at 'em_. I shit you not. The best bit? The rest of the crowd joined in and sang along with him! what exactly were the protestors saying? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2004, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/86 "2004-01-22T14:04:28Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > If people count that as insane, I’d strongly recommend they avoid high school pep rallies, Pentecostal tent meetings and Blue Oyster Cult concerts. These are not places you go to locate the future leader of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/87 "2004-01-22T19:56:21Z")
Perhaps not. But then perhaps we shouldn’t have picked a former cheerleader for the position either. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/88 "2004-01-22T21:25:53Z")
> [@](#): > > from Stoid: > I found it on Fox News last night. I figured they would be too gleeful to fail to show it. That would be funny if it weren’t so stupid. I like to watch Harball (Chris Matthews on MSNB) in the evening. But I got so sick of him playing the Dean clip over and over and over that I ended up flipping over to O’Reilly. I think Bill had something about this early in his show, but just once. Must be because the vast right-wing conspiracy (which, of course includes FOX) actually **wants** Dean to get the Dem nomination. I’m sure Bush personally called Murdock to make sure he downplayed the Dean clip. Yeeeeeeah… That’s the ticket! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/89 "2004-01-23T00:17:16Z")
Sheesh! I turn on Hardball today, and what’s the lead-in story? Dean’s screech. And he played it twice in the first 2 minutes. Enough!!! Let’s talk about something serious, like how unglamorous Dean’s wife looked when she campaigned in Iowa. And was Kerry’s wife drunk when she was interviewed? Now, these are weighty issues. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/90 "2004-01-23T01:18:12Z")
Nice try, John. Those are weighty issues, but you only scratch the surface. How has Dean’s wife changed her hair over the years? Hillary Clinton changed her hair many times, _in only eight years._ I’ve seen the actual unretouched photos to prove it. I’ve even seen “news” reporters ask her about it. The blend between news and entertainment programming is getting a bit too seamless. Next on “MTV Cribs” – Michael Jackson. Get it, “cribs”? Anyway… Did everyone see John Kerry’s Puff the Magic Dragon moment? What does that portend for state dinners? Bakers in Amsterdam might bid on some of the dessert contracts. Well, if they “join the team and come in for the big win” that is. That goes for you too, Luxembourg. Don’t make us stop the car and come over there! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Obvious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@Mr.Obvious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Obvious)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/91 "2004-01-23T01:36:23Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Well, we can look at stereotypes if you like, or cold hard facts. > > The Americans for Democratic Action, a very liberal interest group, provide a handy dandy ranking of every senator per congressional session, according to their positions on a range of votes selected by the organization as most representative in that session to guage a senator’s ideology. > > The rankings of the senators from New York and California for the 2002 session were as follows. > > Boxer 90% > Feinstein 80% > Clinton 95% > Schumer 85% > > By this, we see that the coasts do tend to elect liberal Democrats. Amazingly enough, those supposedly moderate Iowa Democrats manage to return to the Senate, term after term, decidedly immoderate liberal Senator Tom Harkin. His 2002 ADA ranking was 80%. > > Source: [http://www.adaction.org/SenateVR2002.htm](http://www.adaction.org/SenateVR2002.htm) > > I don’t want to hijack this thread any more than necessary to prove my point. But you might want to crack open a history book sometime and read up about agrarian populist movements and some of the interesting left-wing characters who’ve exploited them. Agrarian populist movements? Are you fucking kidding me? Why does this post remind me so much of the bar scene in “Good Will Hunting”? Have you ever spent FIVE minutes in Iowa? Please don’t let common sense and practical experience get in the way of your “agrarian populist movements”. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/92 "2004-01-23T08:43:09Z")
Was Dean’s tone of voice and volume REALLY that different from, say, Winston Churchill’s "We will fight them on the beaches … " speech? It occurs to me that I’ve been interpreting this wrong. People weren’t offended by the ranting, but that he wasted it on something as insignificant as placing third in the Iowa caucuses instead of, you know, an invasion of Nazis. That yelp of his at the end was a sissy yelp. It didn’t even come close to the “barbarian yawp” from “Dead Poets Society.” ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/93 "2004-01-23T13:31:51Z")
I’m not really worried abut Dean being insane. SOunds pumped to me. Of course, he’s probably going to lose NH, but those two states are truly freaks, anyway, and the causes/whatevers there are really not important. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/94 "2004-01-23T13:47:00Z")
freaks? So which states do you consider to be US states? I mean, which states of the 50 do you consider valid? ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/95 "2004-01-23T14:57:50Z")
NPR’s “All Things Considered” featured a good story on the “Dean Scream” and its aftermath: > **[Web Samples Dean Scream](https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1610039)** > > NPR's Robert Siegel discusses the phenomenon of Howard Dean's concession speech in Iowa along with Bill Powers, media critic for The National Journal. Dean's speech was fiery, guttural, and wild, and at one moment he shrieked out a battle cry. The... The audio includes a clip of the speech, if you haven’t heard it yet, as well as some of the remixes. If it wasn’t for that scream at the end, I’d say that the reaction to the speech has been overblown. Dean apparently has a cold (he sounded particularly hoarse on Thursday), and that in combination with his passion made his speech on Tuesday sound so “growly”–you can tell he’s starting to lose his voice toward the end. If his voice had been normal, the speech would have been inspiring rather than slightly frightening. I have to admit, though, that scream at the end was pretty pathetic. He should have just stopped after saying “…the White House…!” ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2004, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/96 "2004-01-23T23:18:59Z")
Is he still losing ground in NH? Last I head he was polling lower then Clark. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/97 "2004-01-27T04:10:52Z")
> [@Mr. Obvious](#): > > Agrarian populist movements? Are you fucking kidding me? Why does this post remind me so much of the bar scene in “Good Will Hunting”? > > Have you ever spent FIVE minutes in Iowa? > > Please don’t let common sense and practical experience get in the way of your “agrarian populist movements”. > > :smack: Let’s use some of this common sense, shall we. When I was talking about the Iowa Democrat, I really should have been talking about the Iowa caucus voter. If you’re not familiar with the caucus process, please note that it is time intensive and totally lacking in privacy. For this reason, participants in the process tend to number among Democratic party activists and enthusiasts far more than man-on-the-street voters who happen to be Democrats. This process has been noted by numberless commentators and journalists. I then, **Mr. Obvious** , responded to some misguided folks who thought we kept all of our liberals in America cooped up along the coasts. I used the example of Tom Harkin, and pointed out that there must be liberal Democrats in Iowa voting for him. If I’m wrong, and he is, in fact not a liberal Democrat, I’ll eat my hat. Third, there are long historical precedents behing the Democratic Party’s success with the farm vote, and they go right back to those populist movements I talked about. (BTW, they haven’t ended. Ever seen a Farm Aid concert?) I didn’t want to get into details about it in somebody else’s thread, but common sense and practical experience would compel one to take note of these things. After all, if YOU’VE ever spent five minutes in Iowa, you would have noticed that there are some farmers living there. ---
**Author:** ![Lucki\_Chaarms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lucki\_Chaarms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucki_Chaarms)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/98 "2004-01-27T15:17:15Z")
Check out this video, taken from the crowd. The context makes a BIG difference, IMHO. [http://www.webmastersforamerica.com/Idiom\_Studio/video.htm](http://www.webmastersforamerica.com/Idiom_Studio/video.htm) He works his way up to it, feeding off the crowd. It’s just a very pumped speech, and the crowd is right there with him, I’d say he did a fine job under the circumstances. Not that I’m a Dean fan… EDWARDS '04!!! LC ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/99 "2004-01-27T15:29:06Z")
Oh goody, I think I’ll just hijack this briefly. What the fuck is up with this NH exit polling? > [@](#): > > In the tiny town of Dixville Notch, voters went to the polls shortly after midnight Tuesday to cast their ballots, giving retired Gen. Wesley Clark an early lead in the primary tally. He was the only candidate to visit the community. > > Of the 15 people casting ballots in the Dixville Notch Democratic primary, eight voted for Clark. Sen. John Kerry collected three, Sen. John Edwards had two and Sen. Joe Lieberman and former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean had one each. [http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/27/elec04.prez.main/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/27/elec04.prez.main/index.html) EXCUSE ME? “of the 15 people that have voted so far” 15 fucking people??!?!?!? Is it so a slow news day? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312/100 "2004-01-28T14:57:17Z")
> [@](#): > > freaks? So which states do you consider to be US states? I mean, which states of the 50 do you consider valid? I mean they they are not really representative of national voting trends. Their votes count, certainly, but they are unusual specimens that often pick oddball canidates, well out of sync with the rest of the nation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howard-dean-is-insane/225312.md?page=6)