# Howc many Patridges in Pear Trees did his/her True Love get? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 21, 2006, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053 "2006-12-21T13:11:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/21 "2006-12-22T00:29:59Z")
Rumor has it that if you add up all the verses individually and then total those-that it equals 365. This strikes me as significant in some way (although, why should it be? So he gave her essentially a gift a day for a year-what about the gift receipt?) I have no idea how to figure that out-either in algebraic form or just adding… (a 7th grader told me that about 10 years ago). I have no idea if it is true. The last post’s math scares me…just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/22 "2006-12-22T00:39:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t see the ambiguity. It’s very clear. Nonetheless, I’ve heard people who think there’s only one partride, two turtledoves, etc. total, figuring that the “and” referred to the earlier days’ gifts (even though you’d expect the “and” to mean that they got the same gifts on that subsequent day), so it is still ambiguous. Besides which, even with only the newest gift being given on its own day, it’s extravagant, without the repetition. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/23 "2006-12-22T00:40:07Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] And the really smart ones go (12 + 1)\*6. [/QUOTE] Why would it be extra smart to assume the recipient wasn’t getting another partridge, etc. every day? A plain reading of the text states that this is what happens… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/24 "2006-12-22T00:54:16Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] Rumor has it that if you add up all the verses individually and then total those-that it equals 365. This strikes me as significant in some way (although, why should it be? So he gave her essentially a gift a day for a year-what about the gift receipt?) I have no idea how to figure that out-either in algebraic form or just adding… (a 7th grader told me that about 10 years ago). I have no idea if it is true. The last post’s math scares me…just sayin’. [/QUOTE] Sorry about that. I was confronted with a similar problem several years ago, except _x_ was 1,000,000. I knew I was going to have to find this formula. It stood to reason that it would be building on the old _x_[sup]2[/sup] + _x_ * * * vv2 that adds sequential integers from 1 - _n_. And after several instances of trial and error, I discovered that the missing factor was going to be _x_ + 2 * * * vv3 For the life of me, I couldn’t tell you why that is the case, but I’m satisfied that it is, based on hundreds of empirical iterations. Perhaps a real mathematician can slip in and explain. Anyway, when those two formulas are multiplied, the result is the formula I gave above. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/25 "2006-12-22T00:56:04Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] Nonetheless, I’ve heard people who think there’s only one partride, two turtledoves, etc. total, figuring that the “and” referred to the earlier days’ gifts (even though you’d expect the “and” to mean that they got the same gifts on that subsequent day), so it is still ambiguous. Besides which, even with only the newest gift being given on its own day, it’s extravagant, without the repetition. [/QUOTE] If they’re going to make me repeat it in the song, they’d dang well _better_ get to wrappin’ up them presents. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/26 "2006-12-22T01:00:07Z")
**kayla99** (shortened your name, hope that’s ok)… I really wanted to know if what I said was true-do all the things add up to 365? Why do math people come at stuff tangentially? Could you answer the question? Is that the answer? Please? I will say that I have no idea what you are talking about, but it sure looks nice… sincerely, old math phobic ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/27 "2006-12-22T01:13:57Z")
I never thought it was ambiguous. I thought that by counting off the days (on the first day, on the second day, etc.) it was obvious that each verse was that one day’s tally of gifts, and the recipient wound up with a shitload of birds, rings, and people. So total partridges in pear trees: 12. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/28 "2006-12-22T01:43:50Z")
Well ya know with all those calling birds and hens you might want a few extra pear trees for them. And maybe a few more pears to feed those drumers druming. Altough really, her true love should have thought about sending all those dancing ladies and other musicians over to her house. She might not need him anymore, unless he came with partridge food. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/29 "2006-12-22T01:57:25Z")
Sorry, **eleanorigby** , but no. As the spoiler in my first post states, it’s 364. But if you add in a single gift receipt, such as **Biggirl** ’s daughter will give you if you tell her that’s what you want, it _does_ come out to 365. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/30 "2006-12-22T02:25:31Z")
Ok, mom says it results to 364 Lords and geese and so on by the feast of the Epiphany. That’s a lot of Lords. Hard to say if they’d be more annoying than the geese. But everyone likes pears. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/31 "2006-12-22T02:52:39Z")
If [url=http://www.pncchristmaspriceindex.com/pressRelease.htm]Economic Factors] are taken into consideration it should be noted that partridges ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/32 "2006-12-22T02:53:43Z")
Ignore that. Please. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/33 "2006-12-22T03:05:26Z")
If [economic factors](http://www.pncchristmaspriceindex.com/pressRelease.htm) are taken into consideration it should be noted that, while partridge costs have remained stable during the past twelve months, the price of a pear tree has rocketed by 44.4%. This increase mitigates strongly against the acquisition of 12 pear trees to support each individual partridge. Whether 12 partridges would successfully coexist in the same tree is a moot point. I guess it depends on the partridges. Whereas the linked site costs in only 1 partridge we may be expected to extrapolate partridge expenses to an agreed number. Who knows? ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2006, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/34 "2006-12-23T15:20:59Z")
Damn. I really was hoping for a Lord aleaping but they seem to be out of my family’s price range this year. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/35 "2006-12-24T02:20:20Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Sorry, **eleanorigby** , but no. As the spoiler in my first post states, it’s 364. But if you add in a single gift receipt, such as **Biggirl** ’s daughter will give you if you tell her that’s what you want, it _does_ come out to 365. 😃 [/QUOTE] I don’t know how I missed that. Sorry! But now, that 364 is really intriguing me. I want to know when they went to the Gregorian calendar from the Julian, and when this song was first sung and if that makes a difference…as well as why one short? That strikes me as ominous… There’s more to this Christmas thing than meets the eye. \ 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/36 "2006-12-24T03:24:17Z")
OK. The standard formula for determining the the sum of a group of digits in a regular series is to add the first number in the series to the last number in the series, multiply by the number of items in the series, and divide by two. Thus the sum of all numbers from 1 to 100 is [(1 + 100)_100]/2 = 101_100/2 = 5050. The sum of all even numbers from 1 to 1000 is [1 + 1000] \* 500]/2 = 1001\*500/2 = 250,250. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2006, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/37 "2006-12-24T03:25:55Z")
I’ve always done the math to 364… which I thought was very… well coincidence, that its one off from 365. The Economics of the 12 days is always a staple news story every year. I don’t recall imedately how those stories do the count, but I am one for 12 peartrees. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/38 "2006-12-25T00:45:54Z")
[QUOTE=Meeko] The Economics of the 12 days is always a staple news story every year. I don’t recall imedately how those stories do the count, but I am one for 12 peartrees. [/QUOTE] There’s a link to this year’s earlier in the thread- and here’s the official [PNC Christmas Index website](http://www.pncchristmaspriceindex.com/). They tabulate it both ways- one of each gift ($18,920.59 in 2006) and all repetitions equal another gift ($75,122.03-over $125,000 if you’re doing it online). Twelve pear tress would set you back $1,559.88 (plus $180 for the partridges, if you’re into that sort of thing). ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/39 "2006-12-25T00:47:48Z")
And, yes, according to PNC, there _are_ 364 individual items in the song. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053/40 "2006-12-25T00:55:20Z")
[QUOTE=Chez Guevara] If [economic factors](http://www.pncchristmaspriceindex.com/pressRelease.htm) are taken into consideration it should be noted that, while partridge costs have remained stable during the past twelve months, the price of a pear tree has rocketed by 44.4%. This increase mitigates strongly against the acquisition of 12 pear trees to support each individual partridge. Whether 12 partridges would successfully coexist in the same tree is a moot point. I guess it depends on the partridges. Whereas the linked site costs in only 1 partridge we may be expected to extrapolate partridge expenses to an agreed number. Who knows? [/QUOTE] \ And somewhere tonight, Robert Benchley is smiling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howc-many-patridges-in-pear-trees-did-his-her-true-love-get/385053.md?page=1)