# Howl's Moving Castle - How can this be a movie? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 31, 2020, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781 "2020-05-31T07:46:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/21 "2020-05-31T23:27:43Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s not evident that he’s learned very much. He hardly does anything magical. He disguises himself as an old wizard, but that’s about it. He functions mainly as a choreboy. He’s pretty much a pointless character in the movie. So, like an apprentice? ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/22 "2020-05-31T23:37:28Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > (And if you haven’t actuall seen it, I don’t think you’ll have insight into what we are talking about.) I saw it 15+ years ago, so the details aren’t exactly fresh in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/23 "2020-05-31T23:39:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > She had a love/hate prior-rejection thing going with Howl, apparently. So - jealousy, as far as I could tell. So you don’t really know, you’re just guessing. > [@](#): > > Yes, that’s what I mean. > > Clearly someone who didn’t like him, or his country. Didn’t need to know that for the rest of the story to make sense, especially as that revelation only comes at the end. > > I would have thought specifically to start the war, given the story as presented (it’s different in the book). So you have no idea. > [@](#): > > But the specifics aren’t important to the story. Only if you want it to make sense. > [@](#): > > Characters don’t have to have a “point”. It’s better when they do. You keep offering “explanations” that don’t really explain anything. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/24 "2020-05-31T23:40:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, like an apprentice? No, because an apprentice, should at least occasionally be learning what he’s supposed to be learning. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/25 "2020-05-31T23:41:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, like an apprentice? No, because an apprentice should at least occasionally be learning what he’s supposed to be learning. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/26 "2020-06-01T00:12:06Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > So you don’t really know, you’re just guessing. > > So you have no idea. > > Only if you want it to make sense. > > It’s better when they do. > > You keep offering “explanations” that don’t really explain anything. There are no explanations that will satisfy you, and that’s ok. Different people understand different things in different ways. The movie made sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/27 "2020-06-01T00:21:49Z")
I enjoyed it. Yeah, I found parts of it confusing. But it was charming and beautiful and sometimes funny. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/28 "2020-06-01T06:30:56Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > So you don’t really know, you’re just guessing. As is anyone who isn’t directly quoting Ghibli or the script on the matter… > [@](#): > > So you have no idea. No, I have an informed opinion. > [@](#): > > Only if you want it to make sense. The story makes perfect sense to me without the specifics. It is not Turniphead/Justin’s story, his circumstances are completely incidental. Even the war is just background. > [@](#): > > It’s better when they do. To you. To me, “pointless” characters just flesh out the world. > [@](#): > > You keep offering “explanations” that don’t really explain anything. They explained enough for me. I’m conveying what I thought after watching the film. That they’re not sufficient for you is \*your \*lack, not mine. At no time in the movie was _I_ confused as to what was going on. Whether my interpretations were “correct” or “explained everything” is irrelevant to whether they were sufficient for me. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/29 "2020-06-01T16:45:56Z")
It’s one of my favourite Studio Ghibli movies. If you prefer a simple linear plot and boring one-dimensional characters, I’m sure there are plenty of other movies you can watch. And it seems that the majority of people disagree with you. _Howl’s Moving Castle_ is the [3rd highest grossing anime](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_anime_films) of all time, after _Your Name_ and _Spirited Away_. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/30 "2020-06-02T01:51:15Z")
The _only_ two I like are Howl’s Moving Castle and “Kiki’s delivery service”. Reading the objections here, I realize again that I don’t expect my movies to have everything spelled out. I like it when they leave room for imagination. I like it when there is an implied missing back story. And actually, given the success of the movie, perhaps I am not the only person in the world who characteristically opens books in the middle 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/31 "2020-06-02T02:07:25Z")
The way I Think about it is that Ghibli makes Adult movies from a child’s perspective, to a child’s gaining of understanding. A child who is about 5 before a war breaks out. They find the peace before the war as a baseline. The the war happens and is all chaos and confusion. Then as the years pass there is some understanding, some misunderstanding, and a lot of not-understanding. Fireflies is the bleakest forcing of the understanding on the child,and the most real and dark .Spirited away is an example of the the very minor side where the “war” may have not happened at all, maybe it was just a child’s panic. Howl’s is a war that happened, and the broad strokes are presented, but what exactly happened is all through a child-like filter, and very vague. All versions of events presented in an animated format that creates the world for the story. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/32 "2020-06-02T02:21:13Z")
Chalk me up as another for whom _Howl’s_ is a favorite. Phenomenal movie, an amazing journey from start to finish. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/33 "2020-06-02T10:30:45Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > No, because an apprentice should at least occasionally be learning what he’s supposed to be learning. It perfectly fits with Howl’s character that he’s not making much of an organised effort to teach Markl though. Presumably Howl has occasional phases of actual teaching, hence the beard trick, but it would fit that he basically just likes having a someone around to be impressed when he does something. There are plenty of confusing bits in the story, but Howl half-arsing having an apprentice isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/34 "2020-06-02T15:30:29Z")
One of the reasons I love Miyazaki’s stuff because he doesn’t give shit about telling stories in the “western” fashion that most of us have been indoctrinated with. I have always felt that, to truly appreciate his work I needed to put my cultural beliefs and expectations on hold and go live in his world for a little while. Dude has a story in his head and a vision he is looking to achieve and that’s what he’s going to put on film. He’s inviting you into his world for a few hours at time and he has neither the desire nor intention to change his story so that it better suites the expectations of westerners. If the story doesn’t make sense to you it’s not his fault. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/35 "2020-06-02T16:36:55Z")
I re-watched the whole film and I while enjoyed its visual splendor; the castle itself is a truly glorious creation, I still think it’s a poorly crafted story and Miyazaki’s weakest film. It’s just full of opaque characters with unclear motivations doing random stuff: Turniphead, Suliman, her dog, the witch who suddenly becomes a harmless old woman and Howl himself. I think the difference with his other films is that they generally have a main story which makes sense and a protagonist with fairly clear motivations though there may also be other characters and plotlines which are more confusing. Howl is just incoherence and randomness pretty much from the first scene to the last. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/36 "2020-06-04T05:59:46Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > I think the difference with his other films is that they generally have a main story which makes sense and a protagonist with fairly clear motivations though there may also be other characters and plotlines which are more confusing. 😕 You realise the protaganist is _Sophie_, not Howl, right? What doesn’t make sense about her arc? She’s cursed, she wants to get uncursed, she also falls for Howl, she ends up uncursed and with Howl… what’s unclear about her motivations? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/37 "2020-06-04T06:09:26Z")
Sophie has a clear motivation but she doesn’t really do anything coherent towards achieving it. She wanders around aimlessly, gets helped by a random character she meets, becomes a housekeeper and through a series of random events becomes uncursed. It’s honestly not a very satisfying story. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/38 "2020-06-04T06:42:16Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Sophie has a clear motivation but she doesn’t really do anything coherent towards achieving it. She wanders around aimlessly, gets helped by a random character she meets, becomes a housekeeper and through a series of random events becomes uncursed. It’s honestly not a very satisfying story. I think you’re missing the point that it’s Sophie’s warmth, integrity, determination, love, and compassion that wins in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/39 "2020-06-04T07:36:45Z")
On a tangentially related note, [Studio Ghibli is making a movie of DYJ’s final book](https://soranews24.com/2020/06/03/new-studio-ghibli-anime-coming-this-winter-is-first-cg-feature-planned-by-hayao-miyazaki/). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781/40 "2020-06-04T12:38:55Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Sophie has a clear motivation but she doesn’t really do anything coherent towards achieving it. She wanders around aimlessly Really? I thought she fled the city explicitly looking for Howl, to get the curse lifted. It’s apparent that everyone is familiar with the perambulations of the Castle in the hills. Nothing aimless about that. > [@](#): > > , gets helped by a random character she meets, You mean the one she helped first? Or are you talking about her encountering him in the first place? _Along the path from the city to the hills where the Castle roams_? There was nothing random about Turniphead being near Howl’s Castle, IMO. Note how he follows it, after. > [@](#): > > becomes a housekeeper and through a series of random events becomes uncursed. It’s honestly not a very satisfying story. I can see how it might be if you view all the events as random. But they’re not. Sophie is cursed _because of Howl_, Turniphead is hanging around the path of Howl’s Castle for the same reason Sophie ends up there, Sophie doesn’t \*randomly \*become the housekeeper, she assertively takes the role on, in order to stay near Calcifer, who recognized her curse and offered to break it, and Howl, who is also an option for breaking it (and she’s infatuated with him). That all seems like a clear sequence to me. And \*\*GreenWyvern \*\*has it right, about Sophie’s qualities being important. I think some people don’t quite get that fairy tale is not quite the same as adventure fantasy. \*\*\*HMC \*\*\*is way more the former than the latter. Or, at least, is playing with its tropes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/howls-moving-castle-how-can-this-be-a-movie/854781.md?page=3)