# How's Al Franken's Senate bid going? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 12, 2008, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239 "2008-02-12T01:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/561 "2009-01-07T18:15:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Can Minnesotans really be said to “buzz?” Shiver, maybe. It is a common misunderstanding, the notion that Minnesotans are a placid, dull, and unemotional lot. Not so, I assure you. Why, I personally witnessed the crazed celebration when the Twins won the World Series. Car horns were honked as late as 2 am! Voices raised quite above the conversational level! When Lutherans go wild… ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/562 "2009-01-07T18:21:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t see how it’s unfair. Maybe you can explain it to me? If any of the three parties thought the ballot should still be rejected, it was. So if both the County and the Franken campaign thought a ballot should be counted, but Coleman didn’t, then it wasn’t. And vice versa. Plus, the county got the first veto, and it wasn’t uniform between counties (Coleman tried to get the Canvasing Board to force this, but it was ruled they didn’t have the authority) If the county reviewed the ballot and found it to be correctly rejected, than neither campaign got to review it. The end result was that only the most obvious and least controversial incorrectly rejected absentee ballots were counted. Anything that was even remotely in doubt got rejected again. Compare that to the standard recount process, where ballots were challenged, and then the validity of the challenge was ruled by an objective authority. (the canvassing board). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/563 "2009-01-07T18:28:41Z")
Coleman agreed to all of that. I think you stillhaven’t explained why it was unfair to Coleman. How did it give any advantage to Franken? Why did Coleman agree to it? All those decisions were made on camera, by the way. What exactly are you accusing the canvassing board of doing that’s unfair to poor Normie? What do you believe their motive was, and how were they able to get away with it right in front of the cameras and the lawyers from both sides staring over their shoulders? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/564 "2009-01-07T18:31:47Z")
The Pubbie lost. There’s another question after that? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/565 "2009-01-07T18:33:54Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Compare that to the standard recount process, where ballots were challenged, and then the validity of the challenge was ruled by an objective authority. (the canvassing board). On what basis do you claim that is the “standard” process under Minnesota law? ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/566 "2009-01-07T20:32:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > On what basis do you claim that is the “standard” process under Minnesota law? Where did I say it was law? Besides, I was comparing the process between challenged absentee vs regular ballots. The process wasn’t the same. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/567 "2009-01-08T01:51:23Z")
[http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/01/colemans\_lawsuit\_this\_whole\_election\_stinks\_--\_and.php](http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/01/colemans_lawsuit_this_whole_election_stinks_--_and.php) **Coleman’s Lawsuit: This Whole Election Stinks – And I Won** From _Talking Points Memo_, a biased and partisan analysis of the Coleman suit (as offered above). Such self-serving analysis deserves a blistering, point-by-point refutation by a knowledgeable and well-informed Coleman supporting Doper. Bueller? Bueller? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/568 "2009-01-08T02:54:32Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > If any of the three parties thought the ballot should still be rejected, it was. So if both the County and the Franken campaign thought a ballot should be counted, but Coleman didn’t, then it wasn’t. And vice versa. Okay. And the unfair part comes in where, exactly? > [@](#): > > Plus, the county got the first veto, and it wasn’t uniform between counties (Coleman tried to get the Canvasing Board to force this, but it was ruled they didn’t have the authority) If the county reviewed the ballot and found it to be correctly rejected, than neither campaign got to review it. Same question. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/569 "2009-01-08T03:50:16Z")
Norm Coleman’s best option at this point is to demand Harry Reid to declare him the winner and seat him immediately. Considering the general spinelessness of the Majority Leader, I think this option actually has a very good chance of succeeding. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/570 "2009-01-08T15:41:40Z")
The MN Republicans are talking about election reforms this contest has shown need to be made. High on the list of changes they say need to be made is… (wait for it) Voters should be forced to show ID before they can vote! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/571 "2009-01-08T15:47:22Z")
> [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](#): > > The MN Republicans are talking about election reforms this contest has shown need to be made. High on the list of changes they say need to be made is… > > (wait for it) > > Voters should be forced to show ID before they can vote! So the idea is to imply voter fraud, even though there hasn’t been the slightest evidence or suggestion of it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/572 "2009-01-08T16:49:21Z")
I dunno. I mean, I read the TPM piece referenced above, with partisan filters on max. And it just doesn’t make any sense, I can’t see how this holds together, rational-wise. I don’t see even a glimmer that the Norm! camp can hope to reverse the result. And dragging this out in the courts just to stick a thumb in Harry Reid’s eye…well, that’s stupid, no? So I keep thinking there must be a rationale here, somewhere, but I’m damned if I can see it. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/573 "2009-01-08T16:59:18Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Okay. And the unfair part comes in where, exactly? > > Same question. Unfair as in different rules were applied to challenged regular votes as opposed to challenged absentee ballots. Fair would be the same rules applied to all challenged votes. ---
**Author:** ![haymarketmartyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/35a633/32.png) [@haymarketmartyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/haymarketmartyr)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/574 "2009-01-08T17:08:26Z")
It is pretty clear to me that the recount was conducted under the watchful eye and participation of both camps who participated in the construction and enforcement of the rules. The Panel of Five was clearly bi-partisan and almost all of their rulings, even on each ballot, were made 5 to 0. So now Coleman lost and he wants another court to change the rules and come up with a new decision. I do not see that happening. The official mechanism for recounts has been exercised in the most transparent way I have ever seen in the clear light of day. Al Franken is the next Senator from Minnesota. I think one reason Republicans and conservatives so despise Franken is that he is a fighting Democrat who does not take any crap. He is not the Harry Reid - Tiny Timid type. He did what Al Gore should have did eight years ago and he made it work. Its about time we had a democrat who played the game with a baseball bat instead of a powderpuff. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/575 "2009-01-08T17:09:45Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Unfair as in different rules were applied to challenged regular votes as opposed to challenged absentee ballots. Oh, **abstract** unfairness, as opposed to unfairness that actually has a demonstrable effect in biasing the results one way or another. Yeah, gotta wipe _that_ out. Maybe voter Id’s would be the solution? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/576 "2009-01-08T17:19:43Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Unfair as in different rules were applied to challenged regular votes as opposed to challenged absentee ballots. > > Fair would be the same rules applied to all challenged votes. Why? There are obviously risks involved in accepting ballots by mail that aren’t present with in-person voting. Here are [the four rules](https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=203B.12) for rejecting absentee ballots: > [@](#): > > (1) the voter’s name and address on the return envelope are the same as the information provided on the absentee ballot application; > > (2) the voter’s signature on the return envelope is the genuine signature of the individual who made the application for ballots and the certificate has been completed as prescribed in the directions for casting an absentee ballot, except that if a person other than the voter applied for the absentee ballot under applicable Minnesota Rules, the signature is not required to match; > > (3) the voter is registered and eligible to vote in the precinct or has included a properly completed voter registration application in the return envelope; and > > (4) the voter has not already voted at that election, either in person or by absentee ballot. > > There is no other reason for rejecting an absentee ballot. While I assume that (3) and (4) apply to people who vote in person as well, (1) and (2) clearly don’t. I guess you _could_ toss out (1) and (2), but it would make absentee voting on behalf of persons other than oneself a lot easier. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/577 "2009-01-08T17:24:38Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > He tried to. One of Coleman’s first requests of the SC was to have the Canvassing board enforce uniform standards throughout the counties. The SC ruled that the canvassing board did not have the authority to do that, and that the proper dispute was to file an election contest after the recount. And, as you know, the canvassing board strongly recommended to the counties that they do so. Can you provide the names of some counties that didn’t comply with that recommendation? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/578 "2009-01-08T17:39:22Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > [http://images2.dailykos.com/images/user/191280/colemanpetition.pdf](http://images2.dailykos.com/images/user/191280/colemanpetition.pdf) > > _Daily Kos_ has thoughtfully provided a copy of the Coleman petition. Boy howdy, that’s one serious handwaving petition. “By way of example only” heads up a couple of numbered paragraphs. “On information and belief” heads up another. “A material number of” heads up a few more. But there are no specifics to speak of in that petition. If something like this were in a math book, it would say, “the proof is left as an exercise for the reader.” ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/579 "2009-01-08T17:44:36Z")
Who the hell is Cullen Sheehan, and why is he named as a contestant? Robin ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/580 "2009-01-08T17:49:16Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Who the hell is Cullen Sheehan, and why is he named as a contestant? > > Robin He’s Coleman’s campaign manager. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239.md?page=30)