# How's Al Franken's Senate bid going? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 12, 2008, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239 "2008-02-12T01:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/641 "2009-02-28T09:38:49Z")
Christ… I remember calling back and forth with friends late on the 1st and early into the morning on the 2nd of November asking if either of us had any info on who won the seat (we’re both huge Franken fans, and although not from his state still hope his campaign well). And the clip from that _theuptake_ site (not sure if its still up there) of a ballot being rejected because someone checked Al Franken and wrote “stein” in after Franken’s name as a joke… Couldn’t confuse me more. There were more ambiguous ballots in that small stack that were passed as a vote for him while an obvious vote (one clear X in one box) + something to make the vote counter chuckle got it excluded… 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/642 "2009-02-28T10:11:47Z")
> [@clayton\_e](#): > > And the clip from that _theuptake_ site (not sure if its still up there) of a ballot being rejected because someone checked Al Franken and wrote “stein” in after Franken’s name as a joke… Couldn’t confuse me more. There were more ambiguous ballots in that small stack that were passed as a vote for him while an obvious vote (one clear X in one box) + something to make the vote counter chuckle got it excluded… 😕 Mn State law very specifically says that if an identifying mark or name is written on the ballot, it is a spoiled ballot & must be rejected. And “Stein” is a name. I agree with you that this was probably some idiot trying to make a joke. (Though voting is not a joking matter.) But the officials can’t make assumptions like that; they have to follow the law. Note that Secretary of State Richie has proposed several changes to state law based on what was learned in this recount process. One of them is to more specifically define what constitutes an ‘identifying mark or name’ on a ballot, which might have helped in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/643 "2009-02-28T22:30:17Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Mn State law very specifically says that if an identifying mark or name is written on the ballot, it is a spoiled ballot & must be rejected. And “Stein” is a name. > > I agree with you that this was probably some idiot trying to make a joke. (Though voting is not a joking matter.) But the officials can’t make assumptions like that; they have to follow the law. > > Note that Secretary of State Richie has proposed several changes to state law based on what was learned in this recount process. One of them is to more specifically define what constitutes an ‘identifying mark or name’ on a ballot, which might have helped in this situation. One Lizard People ballot was rejected because Lizard People might be a name, but a ballot with Bret Favre was accepted. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/644 "2009-03-01T04:13:21Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > One Lizard People ballot was rejected because Lizard People might be a name, but a ballot with Bret Favre was accepted. But Brett Favre was properly written in the write-in spot, and the circle in front of it correctly filled in. It appeared to be a proper write-in vote. (Or as proper as any vote for a Green Bay Packer by a Minnesotan could ever be!) Whereas the Lizard People one had the circle in front of Franken filled in, and then “Lizard People” in the write-in line (but the circle in front of it NOT filled in). That one was questionable: you could argue that the voter appeared to vote for both Franken & “Lizard People”. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/645 "2009-03-01T04:55:51Z")
Oh the temptation to assert it’s one and the same… \ ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/646 "2009-03-01T20:47:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh the temptation to assert it’s one and the same… \ That was actually my argument for counting that one as a valid Franken vote: The most plausible-looking scenario, to me, is that the voter wanted to vote straight-ticket Lizard People, and so wrote them in on every write-in spot, but then noticed that there was already a Lizard Person on the ballot for Senator. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/647 "2009-03-01T23:07:11Z")
I would have said the most plausible scenario is that the voter was stoned off his ass. But you could be right. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/648 "2009-03-01T23:19:40Z")
> [@](#): > > I would have said the most plausible scenario is that the voter was stoned off his ass. But you could be right. The two are not mutually exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/649 "2009-03-02T03:43:37Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > (Though voting is not a joking matter.) Not from Illinois, eh? 😃 (from MN but have lived ten times as long in IL) ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/650 "2009-03-02T14:02:15Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Not from Illinois, eh? 😃 > > (from MN but have lived ten times as long in IL) They don’t joke about voting in Illinois! It’s DEADLY serious there! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/651 "2009-03-03T14:38:13Z")
Coleman’s team asked for the election to be set aside in their closing remarks yesterday. This indicates that they know they have lost their case because if they felt they had won it they sure as hell wouldn’t have gone to the extraordinary step of asking for the whole election to be invalidated. The election was so deeply flawed, they argued, that “the most appropriate remedy is to set aside the election.” Remember what Coleman said when he was ahead by a couple of hundred votes? Something about how Minnesota’s election system was so perfect that a recount would be a waste of taxpayer money? He’s gone from step back to set aside. Since Coleman’s team started criticizing the judges while the case was in progress I think it’s fair to say they have moved into appeal mode. He could also file a federal lawsuit to keep things going. Once this challenge is decided Franken could get his election certificate. Would Pawlenty sign it? I kind of doubt it. The challenge would be over, but the appeal of the challenge would be ongoing so he could use that as an excuse. He only got the support of 2% of the dittoheads at last week’s conservative jamboree which underscores his need to make a splash on the national stage if he is to become the Republican presidential nominee. And that has become his all-consuming task in recent months. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/652 "2009-03-03T14:59:31Z")
Meanwhile, Coleman, the Pharoah of Denial, [is still attending Senate Republican Conference meetings,](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/02/coleman-still-attending-gop-caucus-meetings----even-though-hes-no-longer-a-senator.php?ref=fp1) as if he were still a senator. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/653 "2009-03-03T15:11:06Z")
Yeah, it sounds like Coleman’s team is saying their gameplan is to appeal to the MN Supreme Court after this. They expect that appeal to fail, and they believe the US Supreme Court will refuse to hear it. After they’ve run out the string on the appeals (which they fully expect to lose), they’re talking about filing an Equal Protection lawsuit. I don’t know how serious they are about that – if the really expect their theory of Equal Protection violations to fly (they’re arguing that different counties using different methods of counting violates Equal Protection), then they’re going to have to argue that every election in the state needs to be invalidated – not just the Senatorial race, but also all the House races, local races, even the Presidential results in Minnesota. Not only that, but they would then have to defend in the invalidation of every election in every other state without uniform counting methodologies. I think their odds of getting anywhere with the lawsuit would be so miniscule, the grounds so specious and the desired remedy so catastrophic that I can’t believe they’re serious about trying it, but obviously, this process is not about winning anything for Coleman, but about stalling and delaying the seating of Franken as long as possible. Coleman has completely burned any bridges for any further political career in this state, so I hope he ends up getting well payed for going along with all this. He can’t get elected dog catcher here anymore. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/654 "2009-03-03T15:23:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yeah, it sounds like Coleman’s team is saying their gameplan is to appeal to the MN Supreme Court after this. They expect that appeal to fail, and they believe the US Supreme Court will refuse to hear it. After they’ve run out the string on the appeals (which they fully expect to lose), they’re talking about filing an Equal Protection lawsuit. I don’t know how serious they are about that – if the really expect their theory of Equal Protection violations to fly (they’re arguing that different counties using different methods of counting violates Equal Protection), then they’re going to have to argue that every election in the state needs to be invalidated – not just the Senatorial race, but also all the House races, local races, even the Presidential results in Minnesota. Not only that, but they would then have to defend in the invalidation of every election in every other state without uniform counting methodologies. I think their odds of getting anywhere with the lawsuit would be so miniscule, the grounds so specious and the desired remedy so catastrophic that I can’t believe they’re serious about trying it, but obviously, this process is not about winning anything for Coleman, but about stalling and delaying the seating of Franken as long as possible. > > Coleman has completely burned any bridges for any further political career in this state, so I hope he ends up getting well payed for going along with all this. He can’t get elected dog catcher here anymore. I’ve voted for Coleman before…never again. When someone stands in front of the camera right after the election and declares that if he were Franken he would step aside for the good of the people of MN…and then when that situation REVERSES and he doesn’t step aside but instead drags it out as long as possible? Screw him. He completely shot his integrity. If I can’t trust him to honor a simple declaration of his, how can I trust him in anything? {bduck…who is still aghast at Clinton for saying on camera that he didn’t have sexual relations with that woman…lie…bald face lie right on camera. Same league as what Coleman did} ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/655 "2009-03-03T16:08:54Z")
Any bets as to how long this charade will continue before the senate seat is filled? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/656 "2009-03-03T16:26:15Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Any bets as to how long this charade will continue before the senate seat is filled? As long as the money lasts. I don’t doubt for a second that Coleman’s being paid at least as much as his lawyers to put his life on hold in order to play anchor to Franken’s sailboat, no matter how much the citizens of Minnesota blow to try to get him to DC. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/657 "2009-03-03T17:19:28Z")
At this point, I’m starting to thing that a new election might be the way to go. Coleman has made such an ass of himself, I’d bet that he would come out worse the second time around. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/658 "2009-03-03T17:41:48Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > I If I can’t trust him to honor a simple declaration of his, how can I trust him in anything? Hypocrysis about the election is rampant on both sides. Here’s a topical quote from Franken’s Blog, back in December (back before he was trying to suppress improperly rejected absentee ballots in the court case) [http://blog.alfranken.com/2008/12/02/sos-directs-local-officials-to-review-uncounted-absentee-ballots/](http://blog.alfranken.com/2008/12/02/sos-directs-local-officials-to-review-uncounted-absentee-ballots/) > [@](#): > > We are determined to ensure that every Minnesotan who cast a vote — either in person or via absentee — ought to have that vote counted. And whether it is at the county level, at the canvass board,\*\* in the courts\*\* or before the United States Senate, we don’t know yet. But because we believe the principle that every vote cast ought to be counted is universal, we remain confident these votes will be counted > > No recount should be considered complete or accurate until all the ballots are counted — that includes the improperly rejected absentee ballots, and any missing ballots from around the state. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/659 "2009-03-03T17:45:29Z")
Franken has not tried to “suppress” any “improperly rejected ballots.” ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/660 "2009-03-03T18:01:11Z")
As I understand it Coleman cried unfair trial months ago so he could angle for an appeal, why isn’t this case already in front of the State Supreme Court? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239.md?page=34)