# How's Al Franken's Senate bid going? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 12, 2008, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239 "2008-02-12T01:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/861 "2009-04-21T16:00:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Note that Norm hasn’t appealed yet; he’s just announced that he will be appealing. It’s still eight days yet before he actually does appeal. No, it’s not, because he has substantially fewer than eight days to file it. Which is moot, because he has done so. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/862 "2009-04-21T18:11:00Z")
Why do I have this image of Coleman standing up in front of the student assembly while Delta House is humming patriotically behind him? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/863 "2009-04-21T20:33:24Z")
I’m not normally out during the day but today I had to run downtown for a meeting and heard Hannity interviewing Coleman on the radio. Norm said that his biggest beef is that different standards were applied for whether or not an absentee ballot was counted depending on the county. Coincidentally, it was the Democrat leaning counties that had the more liberal interpretations so more of their disputed votes got counted. There are like 4000 extra ballots that should be counted and all of them are from Republican leaning counties. He wants the State SC to either call for an entirely new election or force the 4000 other ballots to be counted and he’ll live with the results. He said that he’s very confident and has been praying a lot to give him comfort. He thinks that the SSC will schedule oral arguments some time between mid-May and early June. He acknowledged that the USSC will almost certainly not hear any appeal should he lose. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/864 "2009-04-21T20:36:16Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > He wants the State SC to either call for an entirely new election . . . He must know that after all of this, he’d get **creamed!** ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/865 "2009-04-21T20:40:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > He must know that after all of this, he’d get **creamed!** It doesn’t matter. Norm knows he lost. What he’s trying to do now is delay Franken from taking his Senate seat. A new election would be perfect for him…he knows he’s not going to win, but it would take MONTHS to organize and execute, and Norm could then try to go through ANOTHER recount and appeal. This stopped being about Norm winning months ago. Now it’s all about preventing 59 Democratic Senators. I’d love to see someone do a single-question poll: If a new Senate election were held today, with the same slate as last November, who would you vote for now? I predict that Norm’s numbers would dip _well_ below Barclay’s in the original election. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/866 "2009-04-21T20:54:52Z")
What if the supposed 4k other ballots were counted? Would it give Norm the edge? It is even possible to predict? Poor Norm. All he wants is “fairness for all and for the voice of the American people who are against the disastrous and dangerous Obama foreign policy to be heard.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/867 "2009-04-21T21:06:05Z")
If the exact set of ballots that Norm wants counted were, it would give him the edge. The problem is, he chose that exact set of ballots because they’re all from people he knows voted for him. He hasn’t yet articulated any consistent standard which would give him an edge, and yes, it is possible to predict. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/868 "2009-04-21T21:21:03Z")
Not sure I’m tracking this quite. Is it that Norm wants these standards applied specificly and exclusively to those ballots wherein he expects to gain an advantage? If so, by what reasoning could he exclude such standards where he _doesn’t_ have any expected advantage? And by what reasoning could he insist on applying those standards to a selected sample only, if “equality” is the principle he invokes? Seems to me if he demands that certain standards must be applied to these ballots, then they must be applied to all the others as well, no? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/869 "2009-04-21T21:23:22Z")
If it \*were \*about reasoning, you’d be right to wonder. But, as others have pointed out, it’s about stalling and spite. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/870 "2009-04-21T22:01:48Z")
He said that he wants the ballots that have been counted to stay but that the standards applied to those should also apply to the ones that haven’t yet been counted. He claims that looser standards were applied for them. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/871 "2009-04-21T22:18:28Z")
He’s full of shit. There are no “different standards.” The ballots he wants counted have been considered and rejected three times, all for valid reasons, all done right out in the open in front of cameras, all reviewed by the three judge panel. Coleman does not actually believe there were “different standards,” any more he believed the “double counts” or the car trunk story. He’s just playing to the GOP base, who he knows will not fact check anything or read the decision. They came perilously close to calling his complaints “frivolous,” and the MSC is not likely to be any more sympathetic. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/872 "2009-04-21T22:27:32Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > This stopped being about Norm winning months ago. Now it’s all about preventing 59 Democratic Senators. Is Coleman, so often called a RINO, really that loyal of a partisan? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/873 "2009-04-21T22:36:34Z")
No, but its speculated by many that has a truckload of debt and no future in politics. Norm is going to need to find himself a job - a pretty high paying one. And that is going to be a lot easier if he is owed favors. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/874 "2009-04-22T03:02:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Is Coleman, so often called a RINO, really that loyal of a partisan? Nobody calls him a RINO except extremely right-wing Republicans. Norm was a loyal Bush vote in the Senate, voting with him over 80% of the time. And much of the time when he did **not** vote with Bush came at the end, as Norm looked toward his re-election bid, and tried to portray himself as an ‘independent’. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/875 "2009-04-22T04:48:08Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > He \*[Coleman]\*wants the State SC to either call for an entirely new election or force the 4000 other ballots to be counted and he’ll live with the results. He said that he’s very confident and has been praying a lot to give him comfort. He thinks that the SSC will schedule oral arguments some time between mid-May and early June. The hell with that. How about next week? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/876 "2009-04-22T05:07:34Z")
I hope they tell him to cram his oral arguments. Fucking June? What a scumbag. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/877 "2009-04-22T16:18:27Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Nobody calls him a RINO except extremely right-wing Republicans. > > Norm was a loyal Bush vote in the Senate, voting with him over 80% of the time. And much of the time when he did **not** vote with Bush came at the end, as Norm looked toward his re-election bid, and tried to portray himself as an ‘independent’. This is all quite true. Norm was a point-man for Bush in the senate. Nevertheless, even after about 20 years on the public stage I still don’t know what Norm believes in on the inside. That goes for pretty much any issue. Everything he does just looks like a calculated maneuver. The only philosophy of his that I’m sure of is that he supports whatever will be the best for his career. I can’t imagine Norm taking a stand he knows is unpopular because his principles will not allow him go along with it. It must be killing him to realize that his career in Minnesota politics appears to be over. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/878 "2009-04-22T23:29:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Norm Coleman today proposed a slower schedule for his election appeal than Al Franken wants, asking that oral arguments in the case be held no sooner than mid-May. > > In a document filed this morning with the state Supreme Court, Coleman’s lawyers asked to have until April 30 to file their opening brief. They would give Franken’s lawyers about 10 days to submit their brief, and then would plan to file their reply by May 15. [http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/senate/43429282.html?elr=KArks7PYDiaK7DUvDE7aL\_V\_BD77:DiiUiD3aPc:\_Yyc:aUU](http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/senate/43429282.html?elr=KArks7PYDiaK7DUvDE7aL_V_BD77:DiiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU) ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/879 "2009-04-25T14:16:16Z")
The oral arguments will be heard June 1, and will take less than a day. Fortunately (I think) the oral arguments carry less weight than the briefs, so the judge’s opinions will likely be already formed and possibly written by the time the oral arguments are heard. [From MPR](http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/04/24/coleman_franken_appeal_date_pushed_back/): > [@](#): > > A possible resolution to Minnesota’s already long-running U.S. Senate race will now wait at least until June. The Minnesota Supreme Court today said it will hear oral arguments on Republican Norm Coleman’s appeal June 1. While the timeline might seem long, legal observers say it’s reasonable considering the gravity of the case. > … > Franken’s side wanted a fast-track schedule because of what it called the overriding public interest in Minnesota seating a second senator. Under Franken’s proposal, all briefs would’ve been due May 4. > > Coleman’s side wanted more time, which prompted some critics to speculate that Coleman was dragging the case out to appease national Republicans, who want to keep another Democrat from voting on President Obama’s initiatives. > > The Supreme Court sided with Coleman on the timeline, which means his attorneys must file their brief by next Thursday. Franken’s attorneys must file theirs by May 11, and Coleman must file his reply by May 15. As speculated upthread, two of the seven justices have recused themselves: > [@](#): > > Chief Justice Eric Magnuson and Associate Justice G. Barry Anderson have recused themselves because they served on the State Canvassing Board, which supervised the statewide recount. Getting closer to final, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/880 "2009-04-25T14:42:44Z")
Would someone kindly sum up the basics of what’s going on at this point? What happens if Coleman wins in June – he gets the seat? Another recount? Franklin starts a new appeals process (at what, the Federal level)? If Colman loses, then what? Franklin takes the cake? Coleman appeals to the Feds? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239.md?page=45)