# How's Al Franken's Senate bid going? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 12, 2008, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239 "2008-02-12T01:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/161 "2008-11-07T17:00:03Z")
> [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](#): > > The thinking is everyone knows everyone else. You would think I was kidding, but no. In North Dakota, that might well be a rational attitude. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/162 "2008-11-07T19:01:25Z")
I find immigration in Minnesota to be an interesting thing. Just the curly cue letters in the Hmong translations make it worth the price of admission. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/163 "2008-11-07T19:03:29Z")
It reflects a set of pretty reasonable values, that it is more important that the voting is as inclusive as possible, that the least amongst us have as much dignity in the polling place as any of us. It also is a measured practicality, that perhaps a very few votes will be bogus, but that is a small enough price to pay for a voting system that is as inclusive as can be managed. And it pretty much works, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/164 "2008-11-07T21:31:18Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > (I’ve voted when recently moved on the vouching thing by saying to someone in line “hey, I just moved here, will you vouch me” - and they DID! I must look honest. I HAD just moved there.) That wasn’t actually proper – the voucher is supposed to have actual, personal knowledge that the vouchee lives in the Precinct. I did it this year for someone who happened to be in line in front of me, and wasn’t sure if a letter from Augsburg College to his new address met the requirements for registering. But I had met him outside his apartment when dropping lit 3 days earlier, so I did know that he lived in the Precinct (but not his name). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/165 "2008-11-07T21:35:06Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > I find immigration in Minnesota to be an interesting thing. Just the curly cue letters in the Hmong translations make it worth the price of admission. Are these “Hmong” from the Star Trek or the Star Wars universe? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/166 "2008-11-07T21:53:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Are these “Hmong” from the Star Trek or the Star Wars universe? The Hmong are a Laotian ethnic group. When Laos fell to the Communists, a lot of them fled persecution and became refugees. About 270,000 live in the US, and of that number, about 42,000 live in Minnesota. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/167 "2008-11-07T22:00:20Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > That’s an ethical answer, not a statistical one. No, that’s a statistical answer. If we know one of them exists, then we are 100% certain that the number of them is different from zero. Hence statistically significant. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/168 "2008-11-08T00:28:55Z")
\*ST. PAUL, Minn. - An Associated Press analysis of the nearly 25,000-vote difference in presidential and Senate race tallies shows that most ballots lacking a recorded Minnesota Senate vote were cast in counties won by Democrat Barack Obama. The finding could have implications for Republican Sen. Norm Coleman and Democrat Al Franken, who are headed for a recount separated by the thinnest of margins — a couple hundred votes, or about 0.01 percent. Though some voters may have intentionally bypassed the race, others may have mismarked their ballot or optical scanning machines may have misread them. A recount due to begin Nov. 19 will use manual inspection to detect such ballots.\* [http://www.startribune.com/politics/34116044.html](http://www.startribune.com/politics/34116044.html) * * * Add to this concerns about the optical scanners used on the ballots: \*Earlier this year, voting officials in Sacramento, Calif., decided not to use similar vote counters after their pre-election tests also went awry. They found color-coded ballots used in the February primary weren’t being counted correctly. Jill LaVine, the registrar of voters in Sacramento County, said part of the problem was the way the ballots were designed. “With that combination of a printing problem, and we did discover that our read heads were dirty, so it wasn’t consistently rejecting every single ballot,” said LaVine. “At that point, we don’t have time to go back and reprint or to take care of these machines. So we just pulled all the machines, and we did not use them at all for that election.” \* > **[Minnesota's election system in the spotlight](https://www.mprnews.org/story/2008/11/07/minnesotas-election-system-in-the-spotlight)** > > Minnesota has a reputation for clean and transparent elections. That reputation is about to be put to the test in a way the nation hasn't seen since the presidential recount in Florida in 2000. [Same article, \] \*The human error can range from simply transposing digits when writing down ballot totals to destroying votes outright. Six years ago, an election judge in Austin, Minn., burned a handful of ballots in her fireplace at home after an apparent misunderstanding on election night. \* \ \*“In almost every election, there’s a bag full of ballots that somebody finds in a recount,” said Sautter. “When you’re ahead, you argue against it, but usually they’re properly secured. They just were overlooked in some way.” In Minnesota, the respective Senate campaigns look like they’re already starting the search for those ballots, if there are any out there.\* This ought to be interesting.:smack::D;):rolleyes::eek:😕 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/169 "2008-11-08T00:33:54Z")
[Franken’s response to the situation:](http://blog.alfranken.com/2008/11/05/a-statement-from-al-franken/) > [@](#): > > The process, dictated by our laws, will be orderly, fair, and will take place within a matter of days. We won’t know for a little while who won this race, but at the end of the day, we will know that the voice of the electorate was clearly heard. > > There is reason to believe that the recount could change the vote tallies significantly. > > Our office and the Obama campaign have received reports of irregularities at various precincts around the state. For instance, some polling places in Minneapolis ran out of registration materials. Our team has been working on those issues for several hours already, and they will continue to do so this morning as the recount process begins. [And Coleman’s:](http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/11/07/coleman-campaign-questions-voting-data-franken-gains/) > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON – Sen. Norm Coleman’s campaign is using the state’s open records law to ask state and all 87 counties for access to voting data and other records. > > The Republican’s campaign has questions about the gains that Democratic rival Al Franken has made since Election Day. > > Coleman led Franken by 239 votes Friday afternoon – down from 590 the day before, as officials double-checked reports. > > Coleman campaign manager Cullen Sheehan complains of “statistically dubious and improbable shifts that are overwhelmingly accruing to the benefit of Al Franken.” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2008, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/170 "2008-11-08T05:15:04Z")
Yes look at what Coleman’s campaign said there “statistically dubious and improbable shifts that are overwhelmingly accruing to the benefit of Al Franken.” Exactly one day ago Coleman praised Minnesota’s vote counting system. It is so perfect, he assured us, that the mandated recount should be waived for the benefit of the taxpayers and to protect the institution of democracy and to allow for healing (from his non-stop smear campaign I guess). A few revisions are made to the vote total and suddenly it’s skullduggery! These revisions will be rendered irrelevant by the recount anyway as all the ballots in the state will be recounted by hand. Hey Florida, you hear that? What a concept. By the way Coleman’s lead is now 221. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/171 "2008-11-10T21:47:10Z")
The gap narrows… _ST. PAUL, Minn., Nov. 10 (UPI) – Democrat Al Franken has pulled within 204 votes of Republican incumbent Norm Coleman in Minnesota’s U.S. Senate race, the unofficial tally showed Monday._ \*The fluidity results from county officials double-checking results and sending adjusted figures to the state. The campaign staff for Coleman, who is seeking a second term, has expressed suspicion about his shrinking lead. However, Secretary of State Mark Ritchie has said there was no sign of fraud.\* > **[Franken within 204 votes of Coleman - UPI.com](https://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/11/10/Franken_within_204_votes_of_Coleman/UPI-19251226343255/)** > > Democrat Al Franken has pulled within 204 votes of Republican incumbent Norm Coleman in Minnesota's U.S. Senate race, the unofficial tally showed Monday. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/172 "2008-11-10T22:13:29Z")
Nate Silver has a very math-geeky look at Franken’s odds to get enough recounted votes to win, based on how the groups likeliest to overvote or undervote split between Franken and Coleman: [http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/frankens-odds-of-winning-recount-may-be.html](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/frankens-odds-of-winning-recount-may-be.html) ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/173 "2008-11-10T22:27:05Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Nate Silver has a very math-geeky look at Franken’s odds to get enough recounted votes to win, based on how the groups likeliest to overvote or undervote split between Franken and Coleman: > > [http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/frankens-odds-of-winning-recount-may-be.html](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/frankens-odds-of-winning-recount-may-be.html) Yet another article from [fivethirtyeight.com](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/more-minnesota-madness.html). Based on precinct-level data on the undervote Nate now sees Franken as a slight favorite. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/174 "2008-11-10T22:33:13Z")
Also, Coleman’s lead is now down to only 206. [cite](http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/main.results/#S) ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/175 "2008-11-11T02:53:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Eh? Do they just let anybody vote who shows up at the polls? They ask them what the right bait is for pike and how to change the sparkplugs on a snowmobile. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/176 "2008-11-11T03:15:05Z")
“Walleyes”. Technically, “walleyed pike”, but say that and they’ll suddenly start acting nice and talking like Sarah Palin, 'cause you’re not from around here, doncha know. And don’t pay any attention when they start telling you to watch out for ice spiders. It doesn’t do any good to watch out for them. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/177 "2008-11-11T03:32:10Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > My mother in law works with FIFTY Somali women in a SEWING CIRCLE - she volunteers to work with Somali immigrants. This is in a single highrise in the Seward neighborhood > > In a class of thirty, my daughter has two Somalis in her class. > > (Minnesota got a significant number of Hmong immigrants as well. The Luthern church here is very big on immigrant sponsorship). Our very own poster **Chique** works with Somali immigrants in MN. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/178 "2008-11-11T03:51:15Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Eh? Do they just let anybody vote who shows up at the polls? Basically, yes. They have to sign a sworn statement that they are a qualified voter, and have lived in this precinct for at least 30 days, but that’s it. (See [an example](http://www.nd.gov/eforms/Doc/sfn17343.pdf) here.) Of course, the state checks these records afterwards, and can catch people who vote in more than one precinct. And the statement also points out the penalty ($2,000 fine, 1 year in prison, or both) and the fact that it must be punished (no plea bargains or suspended sentences from a prosecutor or judge of the same political party). ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/179 "2008-11-11T04:23:24Z")
There are 461 uncounted absentee ballots in Minneapolis, more than double the size of Coleman’s lead. The Franken team requested they should be counted. The request was denied, but only for the moment as the ballots will be individually dealt with as part of the recount. Hennepin Co. went overwhelmingly to Franken so these ballots could play a big role in the recount, even if a chunk of them are tossed for one reason or another. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239/180 "2008-11-11T04:27:44Z")
Why would a candidate even need to request that ballots be counted? Shouldn’t they have been counted in the first place? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-al-frankens-senate-bid-going/437239.md?page=10)