# How's the 'Bush Economy' doing now? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 30, 2005, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-the-bush-economy-doing-now/314834 "2005-07-30T01:27:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-the-bush-economy-doing-now/314834/121 "2005-08-07T19:20:30Z")
[QUOTE=pantom] **Shodan** : I’m sure you’re right about whatever in tarnation you’re referring to. Please consult [this timeline.](http://clinton5.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/eightyears-02.html) Clinton’s deficit reduction plan was passed on August 10, 1993. So you’re right, technically it wasn’t the first thing he did. So sorry. [quote] No, I was talking about the economic stimulus package he tried to pass. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-the-bush-economy-doing-now/314834/122 "2005-08-11T03:15:32Z")
Just a quick [update](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8897852/). > [@](#): > > Budget gap narrows to $52.79 billion in July > Year-to-date deficit stands nearly $94 billion below last year’s level > > WASHINGTON - The U.S. posted a smaller than expected $52.79 billion budget deficit in July as revenues swelled, a Treasury Department report showed Wednesday. > > Wall Street analysts had expected the government to post a $57 billion budget gap in July, following a $69.16 billion deficit in the same month in 2004. > > In its monthly budget statement, the Treasury Department said government receipts rose to $142.09 billion in July — a record high for the month — compared to $134.42 billion in July last year. Outlays fell to $194.88 billion from $203.58 billion in July 2004. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-the-bush-economy-doing-now/314834/123 "2005-08-30T16:14:32Z")
Just a quick [update](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/30/AR2005083000613.html). > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON – The nation’s poverty rate rose to 12.7 percent of the population last year, the fourth consecutive annual increase, the Census Bureau said Tuesday. > > The percentage of people without health insurance did not change.[…] > > The number of people without health insurance grew from 45 million to 45.8 million. At the same time, the number of people with health insurance coverage grew by 2 million last year. > > Charles Nelson, an assistant division chief at the Census Bureau, said the percentage of uninsured remained steady because of an “increase in government coverage, notably Medicaid and the state children’s health insurance program, that offset a decline in employment-based coverage.” > > The median household income, meanwhile, stood at $44,389, unchanged from 2003. Hopefully, we have turned a corner, and these factors are just lagging behind. However, it seems to me that there is still a large gap between those for whom the current economy is super-duper, and many, many other folks. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-the-bush-economy-doing-now/314834/124 "2005-08-30T17:21:13Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Just a quick [update](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/30/AR2005083000613.html). > > Hopefully, we have turned a corner, and these factors are just lagging behind. However, it seems to me that there is still a large gap between those for whom the current economy is super-duper, and many, many other folks. I suspect that any corners we might have turned were demolished by Katrina. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-the-bush-economy-doing-now/314834/125 "2005-08-30T17:29:49Z")
Not to mention energy prices. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-the-bush-economy-doing-now/314834/126 "2005-08-30T18:55:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually, no, the ‘first thing he did’ was to attempt to increase the deficit by $16 billion. Republicans blocked the effort. Too mindboggling for words…We’re supposed to feel happy that the trillions of dollars of additional debt that Bush is piling up, after inheriting a budget surplus from Clinton, is piling up a little bit less fast this year than we did last year. And yet, **Shodan** is still going on about Clinton’s $16 billion stimulus plan. Do you realize **Shodan** , that the job growth numbers during most of the several years following that plan are still better than the best year of the Bush Administration and that Bush’s supposed stimulus plan is costing us over 2 **orders of magnitude** more than the Clinton plan? Do you even understand what a trillion dollars is in comparison to a million dollars? Geez. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-the-bush-economy-doing-now/314834/127 "2005-08-30T18:57:06Z")
I meant a trillion in comparison to a billion of course. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-the-bush-economy-doing-now/314834/128 "2005-08-31T05:17:01Z")
Either way, a billion here, a billion there, pretty soon you’re talking real money. It is an entirely legitimate political position to hold that those who already have more money than they can spend should have more. It is simply a political position I wholeheartedly detest, and will resist until my keyboards last breath. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-the-bush-economy-doing-now/314834/129 "2005-08-31T06:58:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > \It is an entirely legitimate political position to hold that those who already have more money than they can spend should have more. It is simply a political position I wholeheartedly detest, and will resist until my keyboards last breath. I don’t understand. Can you describe your preferred system, where people who “already have more many than they can spend” wouild not be allowed to have any more? What would such people do in that system? Seems like they’d have only two choices-- continue working w/o pay, or retire. Once they retired, though, what would they do with their money other than spend it? If they invested it, they wouldn’t be able to receive any income from it. Your position might make sense if the economy were a zero sum game. But the economy isn’t a zero sum game. Am I missing something? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-the-bush-economy-doing-now/314834/130 "2005-08-31T07:09:36Z")
Or… was that just another way of saying you’d never advocate reducing taxes for the very wealthy? It wasn’t clear from the context. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-the-bush-economy-doing-now/314834/131 "2005-08-31T12:27:32Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > Too mindboggling for words…We’re supposed to feel happy that the trillions of dollars of additional debt that Bush is piling up, after inheriting a budget surplus from Clinton, is piling up a little bit less fast this year than we did last year. And yet, **Shodan** is still going on about Clinton’s $16 billion stimulus plan. Do you realize **Shodan** , that the job growth numbers during most of the several years following that plan are still better than the best year of the Bush Administration and that Bush’s supposed stimulus plan is costing us over 2 **orders of magnitude** more than the Clinton plan? > > Do you even understand what a trillion dollars is in comparison to a million dollars? Geez. I was correcting a misstatement of fact by **pantom**. And Clinton’s stimulus plan was defeated by Republicans, so I don’t think it is wise to attribute job growth numbers to it, as you seem to be implying. As is often the case, deficit reduction is a bad thing when Republicans do it, but attempts to increase the deficit are good if Democrats do it. Here’s a tissue - wipe the foam off your chin. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-the-bush-economy-doing-now/314834/132 "2005-08-31T12:30:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I was correcting a misstatement of fact by **pantom**. > > And Clinton’s stimulus plan was defeated by Republicans, so I don’t think it is wise to attribute job growth numbers to it, as you seem to be implying. As is often the case, deficit reduction is a bad thing when Republicans do it, but attempts to increase the deficit are good if Democrats do it. > > Here’s a tissue - wipe the foam off your chin. > > Regards, > Shodan I thought it was _opposed_ by Republicans, but passed anyway. What was the bill you are talking about, and what was the vote breakdown by party? ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-the-bush-economy-doing-now/314834/133 "2005-09-01T02:28:24Z")
**Shodan** : More like being ridiculously and uselessly pedantic, but feel free. The fact remains that any one year of this President’s term has raised the fiscal debt by more than it went up in any year Clinton was President, save the first year of Clinton’s term, when he inherited the father of this President’s mess, and the first year of Bush II’s term, when he inherited the sound policies put in place by Clinton and his economic team. This interlude is very very similar to the billion dollar Republican Congress, as it was called at the time, that trashed the prudence of Grover Cleveland. Who, btw, was also vilified for his private life. History does rhyme, sometimes. Looking at the figures, I can only be amazed that you would even bring up the subject, since all it will do, in my case, anyway, is provoke me into bringing not-so-pedantic facts into play to show just how unbelievably trivial your point is. Allow me to, ahem, elucidate: ```auto 7/29/2005 $7,887,617,581,195.58 $508,564,884,865.26 9/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32 $595,821,633,586.70 9/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62 $554,995,097,146.46 9/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16 $420,772,553,397.10 9/28/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06 $133,285,202,313.20 9/29/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86 $17,907,308,271.43 9/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43 $130,077,892,717.81 9/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62 $113,046,997,500.28 9/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34 $188,335,072,261.61 9/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73 $250,828,038,426.34 9/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39 $281,232,990,696.07 9/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32 $281,261,026,873.94 9/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38 $346,868,227,617.72 9/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66 ``` That 346.8 billion dollar deficit that Clinton inherited? A record. Notice that that year and every year since is less than any year under Bush II except the first. That 420.7 billion dollar deficit in Bush II’s second year? A record. The 555 billion dollar deficit in the third year? A record. The 595.8 billion (this figure and the prior are each more than half a trillion dollars in size, btw. That’s trillion with a “t”.) deficit? Yet another record. Through July of this year, 508.5 billion smackeroos. Once again, more than half a trillion dollars. I believe your point, in this context, is the definition, nay the quintessence, of trivial. For shame. (Source: [Bureau of the Public Debt: The Debt to the Penny](http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm) ) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-the-bush-economy-doing-now/314834/134 "2005-09-01T04:28:25Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > …Am I missing something? I very much doubt it, **John** , bright lad that you are. My point is rather a broad one, a more or less general indictment of our ongoing disinterest in economic justice. There was no pretense of a scheme of action that would invite a duel of spreadsheets. Nor do I intend to offer a precise and detailed scheme only to watch it nitpicked to death, thanks, but no thanks. But, just as I said, I pretty much think you knew that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-the-bush-economy-doing-now/314834.md?page=6)