# How's this for dirty election tricks: **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 5, 2002, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339 "2002-11-05T09:23:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/1 "2002-11-05T09:23:45Z")
[http://slate.msn.com/?id=2073522](http://slate.msn.com/?id=2073522) A leaflet distributed in black neighborhoods in Baltimore Maryland. It reads: URGENT NOTICE Come out to vote on November 6th [sic] Before you come to vote make sure you pay your —parking tickets —motor vehicle tickets —overdue rent AND MOST IMPORTANT ANY WARRANTS If I were december, I would have titled the thread: “Are all Republicans evil crooks because this happened and no one knows who did it?” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/2 "2002-11-05T10:57:34Z")
Apos: From your link… > [@](#): > > Chatterbox can’t prove that this leaflet was distributed by Republicans, but since Baltimore’s black population is overwhelmingly Democratic, that seems a safe assumption. I don’t know why that assumption seems “safe”. Assumptions that seem equally “safe” to me are White Nationalists, stupid kids with a laser printer, or some bizarre fraternity hazing. The joke about giving out the wrong date is a very old one. It’s too bad that Chatterbox thinks Blacks are that stupid. And it’s too bad that you failed to point out Chatterbox’s laughable logical fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/3 "2002-11-05T13:19:42Z")
Blacks aren’t stupid, _people_ are stupid. Or at least a certain percentage of any given group: Hoosiers, Lithuanians, Catholics, stamp collectors, dog lovers, cat lovers, you name it. Any attempt to dissuade persons of any particular group from voting that is based on the presumed stupidity of that group is going to work, at least to some degree. Hence, some black residents have been dissuaded from voting, probably Dem. On the other hand, a lot of black people have “been there, had that done to them”, and aren’t that easy to con, so most likely the effect is pretty minimal. Doesn’t make the intent any less despicable. Was it the Pubbies? Prolly not. They already have the key advantage, money. Why risk it? It may very well have been some bunch of goons of the extreme right persuasion, but that doesn’t make it the Pubbies. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/4 "2002-11-05T14:20:24Z")
It looks like a veiled threat, but fake threats are not unknown in politics. I know people who have issued dirt sheets on themselves to stir people up. It could be anyone. As a non-American, could you tell me which (if any) of the things on the list might be a problem turning up vote? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/5 "2002-11-05T14:24:46Z")
As far as I know, none of them would present a problem. Voting places have a list of registered voters for their district, and match your identification against the list to determine if you are allowed to vote at that location. I don’t believe (though this is a guess) that they have any flags for people who have broken any laws, and there are certainly no “hasn’t paid rent” notations. ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/6 "2002-11-05T14:43:42Z")
They don’t, but if people (i.e. new voters) believe that there are, their poverty and fear will keep them away from the polls altogether. Fact: the less people who actually vote, the better the Republicans do in their elections. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/7 "2002-11-05T14:46:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DeniseV \* > \*\*I don’t believe (though this is a guess) that they have any flags for people who have broken any laws \*\* I _think_ that they will have flags for convicted felons (for non-Americans, a felony is a major crime) because of felony disenfranchisement laws. Misdemeanors, however, do not carry disenfranchisement laws and are thus not tracked by the people operating the polls. But as far as tickets or unpaid bills, Denise is absolutely right. There are no restrictions or red flags other than felonies (“hey, says here he killed a guy in '72 - he can’t vote”) Shoot, you don’t even need a picture ID such as a drivers license. You can walk up with your power bill (unpaid) and say “I’m this guy”. As long as the address matches what they have on the voting registry they’ll let you vote. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/8 "2002-11-05T14:49:19Z")
> [@](#): > > As far as I know, none of them would present a problem. The problem is that there are a lot of poor people who rarely vote, and as a result are unfamiliar with the process or their rights. The tactics described here would discourage such people who _do_ have unpaid tickets, overdue rents, warrants, etc. from going to the polls to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/9 "2002-11-05T14:55:12Z")
While I doubt that the Republican Party actually had anything directly to do with spreading these leaflets, I can’t shake the feeling that there’s something very “Donald Segretti” about this. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/10 "2002-11-05T14:58:05Z")
BTW, for those of you too young to remember Watergate, this is who [Donald Segretti](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/watergate/donaldsegretti.html) was. ---
**Author:** ![In\_Conceivable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4bbf92/32.png) [@In\_Conceivable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Conceivable)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/11 "2002-11-05T15:04:58Z")
Where I vote all they have is a list of names and addresses of registered voters. I write down my full name and address on a piece of paper and they check to see if it is on the list. If it matches I vote. I don’t need ID or anything with my name and address printed on it other then the piece of paper I write it on. I have never seen anyone arrested while voting. Hell, I haven’t even ever seen any police at the polls. I doubt that most of the people who would be scared by that flier would bother to vote anyway. Still it is a shame that someone scared them. I doubt it was the Republicans. The cost would far out weigh the gains if they were caught. And, I think it was irresponsible of Slate to “assume” that it was them with out any evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/12 "2002-11-05T15:13:24Z")
What Elucidator said. (This is getting weird.) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/13 "2002-11-05T18:03:19Z")
My educated guess (and that’s all it could be, a guess) is that while one couldn’t rule out a leafleteer with some kind of Republican connection/orientation, the source is more likely to be a non-GOPer trying to stir up black people to vote. “See, look at this dirty trick designed to keep blacks away from the polls! It’s worse than Florida in 2000! Are we going to let this plot keep us from voting? Turn out and show those #_^(^_$ we can’t be scared off !!” People don’t like to be manipulated. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/14 "2002-11-05T18:52:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jackmannii \* > \*\*My educated guess (and that’s all it could be, a guess) is that while one couldn’t rule out a leafleteer with some kind of Republican connection/orientation, the source is more likely to be a non-GOPer trying to stir up black people to vote. \*\* Yeah, just like the Mossad arranged to have those planes hijacked, and used to knock down the World Trade Center towers, just to get us all riled up against the A-rabs. A bit too “tin-foil-hat” for me, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/15 "2002-11-05T19:02:49Z")
Lib, I hope this sometime is just a bad day, and not your true bearing. This: —The joke about giving out the wrong date is a very old one. It’s too bad that Chatterbox thinks Blacks are that stupid. And it’s too bad that you failed to point out Chatterbox’s laughable logical fallacy.— was downright nasty on your part, considering my stated and obvious antipathy to the idea that the Republicans are involved. Maybe that december reference was too obscure, but still. Likewise, though Chatterbox is exactly as reliable as it sounds, your veiled insinuation of racism is likewise dispicable. Careful: you might make Jesse Ventura’s wife cry. ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/16 "2002-11-05T20:01:06Z")
Wonder if these are dirty tricks, too? According to Drudge: > [@](#): > > Systematic problem statewide in Georgia confirmed: When placing vote, and touching the screen for a Republican candidate, the box is incorrectly checked for the Democrat candidate. Another similar situation is occurring when the review screen comes up and previously marked Republican votes are showing as Democrat votes… is happening in lots of different races, to both parties. Officials fixing problems as they arise when made aware of them… Developing… From The Washington Post: > [@](#): > > … technical problems plagued some precincts in Montgomery County, Md. > > Montgomery residents using the new electronic touch-screen voting machines at all 30 precincts in legislative District 19 saw the word “Democratic” in the header of the ballots, according to Sara Harris, deputy director of the Montgomery County Board of Elections. > > Harris said about 9:30 a.m. that technicians were encoding new ballot display cards and were hoping to have the problem fixed within two hours. About 11 a.m., elections official met and decided not to distribute the new cards but to post notices instead in the precincts and on the affected machines. > \ > The notices state: “The ballot is correct and your vote will count. This ballot contains all candidates and questions. However, the heading on the instruction page contains the word “Democratic.” This word should not have appeared on the instruction page and this line should have been blank.” So, to recap, voters will simply be instructed not to pay attention to the big, not-even-subliminal word DEMOCRAT at the tops of their ballots. Much in the same way jurors should disregard that statement that was just said and is now in their heads. Or this: > [@](#): > > BOSTON (AP) Republican Mitt Romney’s campaign filed a complaint several hours after polls opened Tuesday, saying union workers were improperly influencing voters in the city’s Jamaica Plain section. > > Romney campaign adviser Rob Gray said officials with the Service Employees International Union were seen entering voting booths with some voters in Ward 11, Precinct 4 of Jamaica Plain. > > ‘‘We’ve got union officials going into the booth with people and telling them how to vote,’’ Gray said. Let’s see … election deadlines no longer matter (Bush-Gore), primary elections no longer matter (Torricelli). Why doesn’t the Democratic Party simply file a block number of votes for itself, instead of going through the motions of walking people who don’t know how to vote for themselves, lifting their hand and putting it on the correct lever? ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/17 "2002-11-05T20:07:55Z")
Seriously, what ever happened to making an X on a piece of paper? The way to make elections run smoother is to simplify them, not clutter them up with electronics (and I’m a technofile). ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/18 "2002-11-05T20:17:53Z")
Apos I didn’t (and still don’t) grasp the December reference, but I’ll take your word for it. Sorry for jumping, but I am glad you cleared it up. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/19 "2002-11-05T20:49:24Z")
Now, **Milossarian** , there’s no reason to be partisan about it. We don’t want to go into those overseas absentee ballots again, do we? No. There are plenty of election-stealing scum on either side of this nightmare. In the spirit of reconcilliation on this day when Americans pretend they have some control over their country, here’s some good old bipartisan scummery: [Using soft money to fund recounts](http://www.rollcall.com/pages/news/00/2002/11/news1104b.html). [Giant individual donations, giant corporate donations, and “safe” candidates funding other candidates’ campaigns](http://www.rollcall.com/pages/news/00/2002/11/news1104d.html). Yep, we’d toss 'em all out on their asses if there weren’t a second, third, and fourth string ready to take the field. So good luck to all of you and get to those polls! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339/20 "2002-11-05T22:22:43Z")
Don’t believe everything you read, Milo. From a [later story](http://www.boston.com/news/daily/05/romney.htm) in the same paper about the Mass. election: > [@](#): > > Secretary of State William Galvin said he contacted Boston election officials, who told him only one woman was approaching voters at the polling site to offer translation help. > > Election officials asked the woman to stay beyond the 150-foot perimeter. No voters complained, Galvin said. Good to know you’re still so utterly predictable, though. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-this-for-dirty-election-tricks/135339.md?page=2)