# How's Trudeau doing, Canada? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 13, 2016, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019 "2016-02-13T13:56:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/403 "2020-04-23T18:10:48Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Sorry, I presume you meant when you buy a handgun it goes to the police for pickup. Does this apply to (hunting) long guns too? No. Only restricted weapons. To buy a long gun, you show your firearms license, plunk down your money, and walk out the door with your gun. I haven’t bought one for a long, long time, so I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some kind of waiting period now, but I don’t think so. For handguns, I should mention that it is almost impossible for a private citizen to get a carry permit, whether concealed or not. Even security guards generally can’t get them. There are a very small number of jobs that will allow you to carry a gun, and I think they usually involve the transport of large amounts of money (ie Brinks guard). So just the act of carrying a handgun to a potential crime is in itself a crime. > [@](#): > > Knowing something about statistics, I don’t think it would be extremely helpful in preventing these rare events. Unless denturists work with neurotoxic chemicals, or something. Exactly. Passing laws to stop 7-sigma outlier events is not a good use of time or social capital. > [@](#): > > By power, I meant number of rounds with considerable force and not a physics definition like the cross-product of force and acceleration. It wasn’t the best phrase to use. Usually we describe bullet power as the number of ft.lbs of energy the bullet can release on impact, or the amount of kinetic energy at the muzzle if we want to take distance out of the equation. Handgun rounds are almost always much, much lower in power than rifle rounds. For example, a 9mm pistol has a kinetic energy at the muzzle on the order of 450 joules. An AR-15 has about 1800 joules of energy at the muzzle. But a .308 hunting rifle has 3200 joules, and a 12 ga shotgun can have 4500 joules of energy, or ten times that of a 9mm handgun. And no one wants to ban shotguns. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/404 "2020-04-23T21:02:34Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > These are recent articles in the Globe and the Star. I might have read 2 or 3 articles essentially saying this. They are often opinion pieces by various groups advocating gun control or people related to victims of gun crime who have become advocates. I hope you’ll pardon me if I comment that op-eds by advocacy groups printed in the Toronto Globe and Mail and the Toronto Star are not necessarily representative of popular opinion across the country. > [@](#): > > The articles stated their opinions but not the underlying evidence, if any, or what the actual laws are. For that reason, since articles often omit important background, I appreciate your contribution in saying what the laws are and what procedures are in place. It has changed my mind to some degree. Thank you. Pleased to be of service. My general mantra in discussing matters of public policy is facts first, as accurate as possible, _then_ discussion of opinions and policy options. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/405 "2020-04-24T00:01:25Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Sorry, I presume you meant when you buy a handgun it goes to the police for pickup. Does this apply to (hunting) long guns too? > > Knowing something about statistics, I don’t think it would be extremely helpful in preventing these rare events. Unless denturists work with neurotoxic chemicals, or something. > > By power, I meant number of rounds with considerable force and not a physics definition like the cross-product of force and acceleration. It wasn’t the best phrase to use. Well, in general, then: 1. Rifles are vastly more powerful than handguns. Even a medium-powered rifle is lethal hundreds of metres out, and most rifles can penetrate light armor and material of similar consistency. Medium rifles will easily defeat most light bulletproof vests. 2. Shotguns can also be very powerful, but by their nature have limited range. 3. Handguns are the least powerful and their practical range is very short as compared to rifles. Most standard handguns cannot be accurately aimed beyond fifty metres and their force falls off quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/406 "2020-04-24T00:15:40Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Well, in general, then: > > 1. Rifles are vastly more powerful than handguns. Even a medium-powered rifle is lethal hundreds of metres out, and most rifles can penetrate light armor and material of similar consistency. Medium rifles will easily defeat most light bulletproof vests. > > 2. Shotguns can also be very powerful, but by their nature have limited range. > > 3. Handguns are the least powerful and their practical range is very short as compared to rifles. Most standard handguns cannot be accurately aimed beyond fifty metres and their force falls off quickly. True, but the value of handguns is their portability and concealment, which is why they are used for violent crimes much more than long-guns. When you’re standing behind the counter in a store and a guy pulls a handgun on you, the fact that it has a much shorter range than a rifle is irrelevant. You’re standing within its range and aim. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/407 "2020-04-24T00:27:19Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Is there a practical benefit to a gun registry? That is the big question. For example, it was said that the police could check the registry before they went into a dwelling house to see if there were guns there. But then, I remember hearing from cops on the beat that they _always_ assumed there could be guns in a house when they went in, especially for domestic violence cases, and wouldn’t rely on the registry. Plus, that argument assumes that everyone is law-abiding and will have registered their guns. Overall, they said they’d start with the presumption there were guns, rather then be complacent because of a computer check. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/408 "2020-04-24T01:18:18Z")
Especially if they know that a significant number of gun owners did 't register their guns, and you can assume that gun owners involved in sketchy stuff the cops might be serving a warrant for are much more likely to not have registered their guns. then there’s the other side of it: Legitimate gun owners argued that if the cops know they have guns, they might be more likely to shoot first and ask later if they got spooked by something. ---
**Author:** ![yarblek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/71e660/32.png) [@yarblek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yarblek)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/409 "2020-04-24T15:02:46Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > In the meantime, the crime rate in Europe, which has all but banned guns, is climbing rapidly. Interesting. Have any source(s) on hand? What do you mean when you say “Europe”? Are the crime rates increasing because of only certain places seeing more crime or are they across the board? When have they started increasing, or are you saying they always have? How do different countries compare? How rapid is the crime rate decreasing in the US, and how does it compare to the same time frame in Europe? What were the baseline crimes rates? Besides a recent Coronavirus related increase, I don’t find any evidence of a “rapid” increase in cime in Europe across the board in recent years but a general decrease since at least 2007. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/410 "2020-04-24T15:21:01Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > This isn’t my area of expertise. Trudeau has always mentioned “military style” weapons, a vague descriptor. New Zealand banned many semi-automatics and some guns which carried more than ten rounds and placed restrictions on ammunition sales and licenses. Since New Zealand is a country of farmers, in some ways it has similarities to Canada. > > So my questions: > > 1. Are any guns which were banned in New Zealand legal here? I’ve not found a simple answer to that question. However, I can point you to the [_Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and Other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited, Restricted or Non-Restricted_,](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-462/page-1.html#h-1024310) enacted by the federal Cabinet under the _Criminal Code_. [Part I of the Schedule to the Regulations lists firearms which the Cabinet has declared to be prohibited firearms.](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-462/page-2.html#docCont) Prohibited firearms are, as the name suggests, not legal for members of the public to possess, except in very rare circumstances. Anyone in possession of a prohibited weapon without the necessary permit is committing a federal criminal offence. Note as well that this Schedule is not exhaustive. For example, any fully automatic firearm, defined as being able to fire more than one bullet with a single pull of the trigger, is automatically (!) a prohibited firearm. The full list is set out by the definition of “prohibited firearm” in s. [84(1) of the ‘‘Criminal Code’’:](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/page-20.html#h-117003) > [@](#): > > **automatic firearm**  means a firearm that is capable of, or assembled or designed and manufactured with the capability of, discharging projectiles in rapid succession during one pressure of the trigger; (arme automatique) > … > > **prohibited firearm**  means > > (a) a handgun that > > indent has a barrel equal to or less than 105 mm in length, or[/indent] > > indent is designed or adapted to discharge a 25 or 32 calibre cartridge,[/indent] > > but does not include any such handgun that is prescribed, where the handgun is for use in international sporting competitions governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union, > > (b) a firearm that is adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration, and that, as so adapted, > > indent is less than 660 mm in length, or[/indent] > > indent is 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length,[/indent] > > (c) an automatic firearm, whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger, or > > (d) any firearm that is prescribed to be a prohibited firearm; (arme à feu prohibée) ---
**Author:** ![Dancer\_Flight](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dancer_flight/32/7601_2.png) [@Dancer\_Flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancer_Flight)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/411 "2020-04-24T20:15:20Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Yes, we are already quite restricted. When you buy a handgun, the process is something like this: First you have to take a training course and pay a few hundred bucks for the basic firearms safety course. THEN you have to take a second course on handgun safety and the legal requirements around ownership. Then you have to apply for the license to buy a gun, which costs money and time. Then, once you put a deposit on the gun you want, you have to take the paperwork to a local RCMP station, and they will do a thorough background check on you. Once that’s complete, you then have to go back to the RCMP, and they will give you a permit to buy the gun and deliver it directly from the gun store to the RCMP. They will then hold it for a while while they do whatever - test fire it and record the ballistics, record serial numbers, etc. This is not quite how I experienced the process. TL;DR - I never had the RCMP receive, store, test, or handle any of my firearms at any time. The rest of this post, are differences in experience, and some expansion or clarification of Sam’s points. * * * I obtained my R-PAL (Restricted Possession and Acquisition License) for work several years before I purchased my first handgun, so there was a touch less back and forth. It was also when we had to obtain a separate ATT (Authorization To Transport) for moving restricted firearms (more on that in a moment). I joined the local gun club & range. There are two valid reasons for owning restricted firearms (pistols, short barrelled rifles, and prescribed firearms): collecting and target practice. If you don’t belong to a facility that allows for the legal discharge of restricted firearms you have no valid reason to own a restricted firearm for target practice. I then went to the local gun store and selected and paid for the pistol I wanted. The gun store started the transfer process with the government and set aside the pistol for later pick-up. The government, well the Chief Firearms Office (CFO), over the course of weeks, requested that I apply for a long term ATT (Authorization to Transport) for the firearm for target shooting, and supply proof of membership to the shooting range. Once the ATT was approved (blanket permission to transport to the range, to a border crossing, to a gunsmith for repair, or to a peace officer for verification or destruction, any firearm registered to my address), the transfer of ownership was completed. I then had to apply for a separate short-term ATT to transport the firearm from the store to my home. I also had wait an additional two weeks after that to receive the new registration certificate (It is illegal to transport the firearm without a copy of its registration certificate, the short term ATT to bring it home from the store is an exemption). Once the registration cert arrived, I could safely and legally transport my new pistol to and from the range (unloaded and trigger locked, in a rigid, opaque, securely locked case), with its ammunition (in a separate container). So the purchase process took at least a month to six weeks. Later purchases generally complete(d) faster (2-3 weeks) depending on the load at the CFO. I did not need to take it to the police for inspection, test firing, or ballistic profiling. Now its been a minute since I purchase my last restricted, it was about 6 months before the Ruger MK IV came out (I bought a Mk III), so the requirements may have changed since then. For instance, the separate long term ATT was made a part of the R-PAL license itself to reduce paperwork, and then the new government vowed to revert it back to two seperate documents as a “safety measure”. > [@Sam Stone](#): > > Once you’ve gone through that (a process that all told can take months), you then have to show that you are a member of a licensed gun range. That’s not easy - in Edmonton all our gun ranges currently have waiting lists, as the number of them is controlled by the city. But once you have such a membership, you can go back and get your gun from the RCMP - but your permit will only allow you to take the gun on a direct course from your home to your gun range. Get caught with your handgun in a place you shouldn’t be, and you’re in trouble even though you legally own it and it’s locked in a case in your car. Yeah, When I first applied for a license it took about 6 months for approval, it took a letter indicating a requirement for work to help expedite it. In BC, the membership waits, in my experience, are a little shorter, but there may be a delay in getting the safety orientation to get your membership card. In Ontario (where I first got my license), the Gun Club had to send the ATT requests on the members’ behalf. That really delayed things. > [@Homer Simpson](#): > > But, I’m angry now!? And that’s why the process takes so very long, and is expensive. > [@Sam Stone](#): > > Speaking of that - you also have to buy a trigger lock, and a locked box for ammunition, and a lockable gun case. The gun must be stored at all times in a locked case with a trigger lock, and the ammo has to be stored separately in its own locked case. Again there are subtleties here. There is no Canadian legal definition of gun safe. But the regulation states: > [@laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-209/page-1.html#h-1019954](#): > > Storage of Restricted Firearms > 6 An individual may store a restricted firearm only if > > (a) it is unloaded; > > (b) it is > > (i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device and stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or > > (ii) stored in a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked; and > > (c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in > > (i) a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or > > (ii) a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked. > [@Sam Stone](#): > > All this can add up to thousands of dollars and massive hassle - which criminals simply don’t want to deal with. Also, they don’t want their crime guns registered to them or have known ballistics profiles. So legal handguns are almost never used in crimes. > > One other thing - assault weapons and handguns are typically quite expensive. You can buy a decent, large calibre hunting rifle for under $500. A military-style rifle in the same or lesser caliber can run $1500-$4000, and will be no more lethal. A few cheapies like the SKS can be had, but they are still not cheaper than a standard hunting rifle. Yet another reason why criminals don’t use them. > > BTW, the features that make military rifles look as they do has nothing to do with how lethal they are. Mostly they have to do with things like weight, use in mud and dirt, ability to attach tactical gear to rails on the gun, ability to field-strip it for cleaning, etc. Large magazines DO contribute to how many rounds you can shoot, but those are already restricted in Canada. Ah magazine restrictions: As a general rule, semiauto handguns are limited to no more than ten rounds of the ammunition they are designed for. Semiauto centerfire rifles are restricted to five rounds (with one or two exceptions by statute, M1 Garands can take 8 round enbloc clips, e.g.). Rimfire rifles do not have limits except where the rifle magazine will fit a hand gun, in which case the 10 round limit applies. An overcapacity magazine is a prohibited device. If you are caught with one, it will cost you your license, your guns, and up to five years in the hoosegow. I’ll leave out the some of the fun work arounds based on caliber games, availability of rifle caliber pistols. or bolt-actions with magazines that can be made to work in their semi-auto cousins. -DF ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/412 "2020-04-24T20:50:01Z")
We jumped into this discussion without actually quoting Trudeau’s comments, which is why gun control measures are being discussed in this thread: [Trudeau reiterates gun control commitment in wake of mass shooting](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-reiterates-gun-control-commitment-in-wake-of-mass-shooting-1.4903966) > [@](#): > > In the wake of the violent events in Nova Scotia, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says the government is pushing ahead with strengthening gun control in the country. > > “In regards to gun control, we took very serious commitments in the election campaign and have moved forward – and are moving forward on them – to ensure that we’re strengthening gun control in this country,” Trudeau said from the front steps of Rideau Cottage on Monday. > … > Trudeau’s Liberals campaigned on a promise to ban assault rifles, which they said in their platform are “designed to inflict mass casualties and have no place in Canada.” The plan would include a buyback program for all military-style assault rifles purchased legally in Canada. > > “I can say that we were on the verge of introducing legislation to ban assault-style weapons across this country, it was interrupted when the pandemic caused Parliament to be suspended,” Trudeau said. > > “We have every intention of moving forward on that measure and potentially other measures when the Parliament returns.” ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/413 "2020-04-26T18:21:38Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Gun laws, as I understand them, are mainly to keep firearms away from people who should not have them. At which they fail miserably, not just quantitatively but qualitatively as well. The first and foremost impact of gun laws is always on the people whom they aren’t needed for. And “should not have them” is a value judgment unless you’re talking about people who have been adjudicated felons or incompetent, for which there are already laws. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > The largest problem with Canadian guns laws is that Canada shares a very long border with a nation without them, which is out of Canada’s control. Swap out “Canadian gun laws” with “United States Prohibition laws” and you have the situation back in the 1920s. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2020, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/414 "2020-05-01T14:28:55Z")
So, what is your opinion on the proposed gun ban? Nobody seems too happy with it. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2020, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/415 "2020-05-01T15:40:01Z")
I’m not sure that I get it. I thought those types of weapons were already prohibited or significantly restricted. Are they getting rid of the grandfathered versions or now you can’t have one at all, even if you complied with other restrictions like a five-round magazine? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/416 "2020-05-01T19:25:39Z")
Banning ‘guns that have been used in mass shootings’ is like banning blue cars because a murderer drove over people in a blue car. I noticed right away that one of the guns now banned is the Ruger Mini-14. This is not an ‘assault weapon’. It’s a ranch rifle that is extremely popular with farmers and ranchers for things like pest control. It looks like a normal hunting rifle, and does not have a pistol grip or any of that stuff. It’s also pretty expensive - around $1500, which makes it less likely to be used by a random person than any number of still-legal rifles. Also, it fires the .223 round. which is about half as powerful as the more common .308 hunting round, which is fired by many guns not affected by the ban. As far as I can tell, it is on the list mainly because a crazy person used one to kill some people, not because the gun is any different than a hundred other semi-auto rifles that will still be legal. This is an insane way to carry out any policy. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2020, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/417 "2020-05-01T19:44:47Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > At which they fail miserably, not just quantitatively but qualitatively as well. That’s just factually wrong, as evidenced by the extremely high number of gun-related deaths in the US per capita compared to any other advanced democracy on earth. I would, however, slightly rephrase the original comment that the purpose of gun laws is keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have them. That’s true, at its core, but the side effect is that the application and background check process is far more rigorous than anywhere in the US, and even more so for restricted weapons like handguns, so the whole gun culture is entirely different in Canada resulting in fewer guns in circulation. Where there are fewer guns, there is less chance of misuse, where even “law-abiding” people can succumb to the impulsive effects of anger, alcohol, or the many other things that afflict our emotions as human beings and cloud our rationality. > [@Lumpy](#): > > Swap out “Canadian gun laws” with “United States Prohibition laws” and you have the situation back in the 1920s. 😃 No, you do not. Prohibition failed because the demand for booze was very widespread – almost universal. There is no such huge demand for guns in Canada, and anyone who does want one can get one legally through the prescribed licensing process. The US border is a problem because the US is the source of the majority of guns _ **used by criminals** _. [The RCMP has confirmed that the Nova Scotia shooter used firearms obtained illegally in Canada and from U.S. sources to carry out his crimes.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tasker-us-border-illegal-firearms-1.5551432) I’m glad to see Trudeau taking fast and decisive action on this. It’s reminiscent of the rapid response by Jacinda Ardern in New Zealand after the mass shooting there, and in Australia years before that. Unfortunately we live right next to a global epicenter of gun violence. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2020, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/418 "2020-05-01T20:02:43Z")
Canada has 37.5 guns per 100 people. The U.S. has about 120. If guns were what mattered to murder rates, Canada would be a really violent place. Canada has the same murder rate as Belgium, despite having three times the number of guns per capita, about the same ratio as between Canada and the U.S. Banning guns will have no effect on murder rates. It WILL harm the rights of millions of people. This is the worst kind of legislation: feel-good policies which have no practical effect but which increase cynicism and opposition to government policies in general, making it harder to do things that actually matter. I do support the extra border controls, extra policing and enforcement of gun crimes. Those may actually help. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/419 "2020-05-01T21:21:51Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Banning guns will have no effect on murder rates. It WILL harm the rights of millions of people. Privilege. The privileges of millions of people. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/420 "2020-05-01T21:29:18Z")
I fully support the ban and I’m looking forward to the handgun legislation. I hope a lot of cities will take advantage of it to ban handguns. I would favor a total ban and then carve out the logical exceptions that are needed out of real necessity. The gun advocates kind of did this to themselves by fighting so hard against the gun registry. The Canadian National Firearm Association’s slogan is “No compromise.” It really said everything that needs to be said about gun advocacy. There will be no compromise on any gun control that even inconveniences a gun owner. So, a ban was inevitable. ---
**Author:** ![Warm\_blood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@Warm\_blood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Warm_blood)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2020, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/421 "2020-05-02T15:40:41Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > So, what is your opinion on the proposed gun ban? Nobody seems too happy with it. Define “nobody”. Like in terms of stats, polling, etc. Because from what I can see, people (aside from gun nuts and rabid Trudeau haters who will never acknowledge him doing something good) generally applaud this policy. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Banning guns will have no effect on murder rates. It **WILL harm the rights of millions of people.** This is the worst kind of legislation: feel-good policies which have no practical effect but which increase cynicism and opposition to government policies in general, making it harder to do things that actually matter. > > I do support the extra border controls, extra policing and enforcement of gun crimes. Those may actually help. 1. Which rights will this law “harm”? The right to own assault rifles? Is that a particular right enshrined in the constitution? We don’t have the equivalent of the second amendment, yet this isn’t even a blanket gun ban. So what “rights” do you speak of? 2. Yes, extra border controls and policing will buttress this law since the majority of these weapons are smuggled in from the states, I agree. The question is, ¿por que no los dos? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/422 "2020-05-02T20:00:50Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Swap out “Canadian gun laws” with “United States Prohibition laws” and you have the situation back in the 1920s. 😃 Canada had prohibition in the 20s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019.md?page=22)