# How's Trudeau doing, Canada? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 13, 2016, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019 "2016-02-13T13:56:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/543 "2023-08-04T18:22:26Z")
The education decision is significant. Experts only thought there to be a 50% chance of this outcome. Some Francophones think the Charter interpretation “generous” and the chance of appeal is pretty high. I do not equate the Office de la Langue Française with totalitarianism. But they certainly can be overzealous, and I think this has unfortunate economic and social effects for Québec. Although the province has some right to its own policies and self-determination, I think this should be largely equal to other regions. One wants to protect culture and uniqueness, but not strangle it nor lose respect for the many things that help nurture it. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/544 "2023-08-09T17:03:08Z")
I gotta say, this column made me laugh out loud, which is all too rare for me. (And I like Pierre’s family and think he is pretty smart.) _(A verdant meadow, covered in dandelions and Queen Anne’s lace. Larks sing, insects hum. PIERRE strolls into view, smiling, a sweater tied around his shoulders. He is picking a daisy.)_ PIERRE _Oh hi, it’s me. Pierre. No, just… Pierre. What was it Shakespeare said? “Shall I compare thee to a summer’s day?” Well, it’s summer now – time for the ordinary summer pleasures in which we ordinary Canadians take such delight. I’ve just come from the puppy shelter where I volunteer two nights a week –…_ > **[Opinion: Outtakes from a ‘kinder, gentler’ Pierre Poilievre’s efforts to flip...](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-outtakes-from-a-kinder-gentler-pierre-poilievres-efforts-to-flip-the/)** > > The Conservative Leader is starring in a series of ads in an effort to flip the script about him. Here’s that script ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2023, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/545 "2023-08-10T18:43:14Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > One wants to protect culture and uniqueness, but not strangle it nor lose respect for the many things that help nurture it I’m an Anglo who’s been living in Montreal for the last ten years and am at a 50 or 60% ability to speak French and I practice eagerly and enthusiastically, to the extent that I frequently get comments of appreciation from my coworkers and store and restaurant staff for my efforts (I am generally responded to in French as well). I also work for a large multinational with clientele around the world and, as such, our business has to be in English, whether we’re dealing with Brits, Spanish, Japanese, Americans or whatever, so we bring a lot of cash into this province. I don’t begrudge efforts to promote and protect French but I am extremely pissed off that policy affecting this multicultural city is more and more being determined by a bunch of xenophobic liars and their uneducated, unsophisticated, and unworldly followers off-island. The premier has successfully introduced the 30 or 40 year old concept of sovereignty-association and the feds and our mayor are throwing us all under the bus. My wife and I moved here after a 20 year absence and we were enthusiastic as all hell about it. Now we are desperate to get the fuck out. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2023, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/546 "2023-08-10T21:05:38Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > My wife and I moved here after a 20 year absence and we were enthusiastic as all hell about it. Now we are desperate to get the fuck out. My oldest is off to McGill next weekend and while she has been in French Immersion since kindergarten, I do have concerns with her accessing things like medical services where she likely doesn’t have the skills in the real world where she does with her academics. At the very least, I am going to Schwartz’s and St. Viateur Bakery next Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2023, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/547 "2023-08-10T21:22:01Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > I do have concerns with her accessing things like medical services where she likely doesn’t have the skills in the real world From my experience, she will have an absolute blast as, in Montreal, the vast majority of residents are easy-going and pragmatic. As I said earlier, my ability is maybe a 50 or 60% level and I have never had a bad time conversing in my French with the locals. Perhaps you’ve heard the term “franglais” and it is really applicable here and your daughter should never balk at practicing French and, if necessary, switch to English mid-sentence, and then switch back when she can; everybody does it, especially the younger folks. At work, on the bus, in public places, it is not uncommon to see a group of teens and 20-somethings speaking both languages such that you can’t tell which linguistic group either belongs to. IMHO it’s a bloody wonderful thing but, to the provincial gov’t, it’s a threat. Your daughter, however, will probably have no problem living in Montreal and even staying here as I suspect that, if not bilingual yet, is probably pretty close and will be so shortly. I’m 64 and I bumble through conversations with the local pharmacists and I’ve never had any issues medically otherwise. But I don’t have the linguistic ability to truly live, in all respects, in French only, if it came to that. If you wish to pm me and you would like to ask any questions about this for your daughter’s sake, please feel free. She will probably have a wonderful time. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2023, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/548 "2023-08-10T22:38:34Z")
You don’t hear a lot of French spoken at McGill or its environs. Most don’t try to learn or improve and do just fine. Many McGill students are American or are not from North America. However, not improving ones French would be both a waste of opportunity and would squander a full appreciation of the city and province (a nation in certain contexts). This need not happen quickly. Many French immersion programs, for reasons of tradition and classism do not much teach Québécois French, which is wrong. The correct attitude is to be proud of it, and to teach all _registers_ of French, but even some Québécois privately bristle at provincial slang. _Why would you want to learn that?_. Because it is rich, real and our cultural patrimony. Even people good at French may find spoken Québécois French difficult to understand, especially at first. It may be worth taking elective courses in this if desired. There are a couple great books showing terms commonly used in Quebec but not elsewhere. But it isn’t necessary to succeed at McGill or get medical care. This may upset some French bureaucrats. Montréal remains a loveable city (however it won’t love you back). It has a unique culture worth protecting and nurturing. But nurturing is not nagging, not negating, not neglecting and not negative. Understand Francophones consider language differently and to be more important than in many other places. All languages judge people for how they speak, but with French this is more so, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2023, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/549 "2023-08-10T22:55:21Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Montréal remains a loveable city (however it won’t love you back). At the risk of continuing something of a hijack, my wife and I loved Montreal. We met and married there in the early '90s and my income was independent of the provincial politics (I was military (therefore federally paid) at the time) and when I was hired at a Mtl-based company in 2011 we were thrilled at the opportunity. Socially, Montreal is generally a wonderful city, but the provincial government is dishonest and toxic and we just can’t take it anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2023, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/550 "2023-08-10T22:57:49Z")
This is largely true and takes up a lot of the oxygen in the room. But many people and provinces are not enthralled with municipal, provincial or national political representation. Often with good reason. It doesn’t make things better, and Quebec and Montreal have some unique issues. But the situation is not wholly distinct to Quebec. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/551 "2023-08-11T00:13:00Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > If you wish to pm me and you would like to ask any questions about this for your daughter’s sake, please feel free. She will probably have a wonderful time. Much appreciated! ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/552 "2023-08-11T00:16:01Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Many French immersion programs, for reasons of tradition and classism do not much teach Québécois French, which is wrong. That’s certainly the case in Toronto. My wife went through the same program 30 years earlier and had the same experience, although she went on to work in a job where she has co-workers in Quebec that she speaks with in French. ---
**Author:** ![veryfrank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/87869e/32.png) [@veryfrank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/veryfrank)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/553 "2023-08-11T18:00:27Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > You don’t hear a lot of French spoken at McGill or its environs. Most don’t try to learn or improve and do just fine. Many McGill students are American or are not from North America. However, not improving ones French would be both a waste of opportunity and would squander a full appreciation of the city and province (a nation in certain contexts). This need not happen quickly. Many French immersion programs, for reasons of tradition and classism do not much teach Québécois French, which is wrong. The correct attitude is to be proud of it, and to teach all _registers_ of French, but even some Québécois privately bristle at provincial slang. _Why would you want to learn that?_. Because it is rich, real and our cultural patrimony. I went to McGill, after growing up going to French Immersion schools, and it’s possibly my biggest regret in life that my French is so terrible. Thing is, unless you actively put effort into it, you can go for four years in Montreal never having to speak French. McGill is a campus that runs in English, every business in the McGill ghetto and about six blocks past it in that general direction speaks English. Days or weeks would go by without my using it. And I’m much the poorer for it now. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/554 "2023-08-11T18:37:16Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > At the very least, I am going to Schwartz’s and St. Viateur Bakery next Sunday. Don’t forget Moishe’s. Their chopped liver is to die for! 🙂 I haven’t been there in decades but on very special occasions Pusateri’s has some in their deli. > [@velomont](#): > > Socially, Montreal is generally a wonderful city, but the provincial government is dishonest and toxic and we just can’t take it anymore. I heartily endorse both those sentiments. During the last referendum on separatism there was semi-serious talk that if Quebec seceded from Canada, Montreal would secede from Quebec. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/555 "2023-08-11T18:42:38Z")
Costco’s (and a few other places) sell Moishe’s pickles and slaw. They used to occasionally sell non-frozen Schwartz’s whole smoked briskets. Not seen those in many years though, malheuresement. You could also get a smoked meat sandwich where they sell hotdogs and pop. Little frozen packets of smoked meat are not nearly as good. But I never ate at Moishe’s as a student. Correctly or not, I perceived it as expensive, and in that part of The Main I was going to be going to Schwartz’s anyway, which was cheaper and which is always awesome. Buddy of mine tried to order a glass of milk there… ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/556 "2023-08-11T18:54:42Z")
You could probably buy _The Dictionary of Canadian French_ cheaply online, or a couple similar books. It is shocking how many common phrases are (AFAIK) used only in Quebec. And the section on swear words, and their many slightly more polite forms, is probably worth the price alone (_tabernouche_). > **[Amazon.com: NTC's Dictionary of Canadian French (English and French Edition):...](https://www.amazon.com/NTCs-Dictionary-Canadian-French-Language/dp/0844214868)** > > Amazon.com: NTC's Dictionary of Canadian French (English and French Edition): 9780844214863: Robinson, Sinclair, Smith, Donald: Books ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/557 "2023-08-11T19:18:23Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Costco’s (and a few other places) sell Moishe’s pickles and slaw. I occasionally get the slaw (I’m not a pickle guy) and it’s OK. My favourite deli slaw is from Pancer’s Deli in Toronto. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/558 "2023-08-11T19:25:23Z")
Yeah, Moishe’s coleslaw is just a notch above average, nothing special. It’s their chopped liver that is to die for! Also, real Montreal smoked meat, whether from Dunn’s, Moishe’s, or Schwartz’s – don’t know which is best – is incredible stuff not to be found anywhere I know outside of Montreal. And kielbassa from ethnic Montreal delis is also incredible, or at least it used to be. I still think of Montreal as Canada’s food mecca. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/559 "2023-08-11T19:29:06Z")
I was sad when Ben’s closed. (Real Montrealaise have sometimes mentioned Beauty’s Luncheonette too. I must have passed it a thousand times but can’t recall going there.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/560 "2023-12-15T00:21:33Z")
An update on the McGill situation that probably doesn’t please anyone. The government will still increase tuition by enough to make most English universities non-competitive (and extra three grand a year going to the Quebec government), while requiring an unrealistic percentage of students to become largely fluent in French. I don’t have a problem with requiring students to take some French while in Quebec. But the gouvernement seems to have picked the numbers at random. It will be sad to see distinguished universities struggle for such weak reasons. > **[Quebec scales back tuition hike at English universities, but adds French...](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-quebec-tuition-hike-french-requirement/)** > > The Quebec minister issued a letter to the heads of McGill and Concordia to notify them the government intends to push through with the tuition hike and language requirements while universities report a drop in applications ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/561 "2023-12-15T15:28:33Z")
There’s a [dedicated thread in IMHO](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/publicly-funded-dental-care-arrives-in-canada/994477), but I think the addition of publicly funded dental care deserves a mention in this thread. I’ve always thought non-cosmetic dental care should be included as part of the universal health care system, but the means tested system they’re using is more politically feasible and will cover those who are most in need, so good enough. > **[Ottawa launches $13B dental-care program with kids and seniors first up for...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/dental-care-program-rolls-out-1.7055195)** > > The federal government unveiled its new dental-care plan on Monday — a $13-billion insurance program that will start covering routine dentistry costs next year for people who meet a certain income threshold. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019/562 "2023-12-15T16:50:31Z")
To be fair, it should be mentioned that (similar to universal health care) this decision was forced on the Liberal government by the NDP in a minority situation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hows-trudeau-doing-canada/746019.md?page=29)